Topic: Where caring ends and coddling begins.

[David E.]

Story

EDMONTON - A teacher suspended for giving students zeros says he plans to continue his fight and hopefully spark a wider debate on where caring ends and coddling begins.

"This is not the best thing for students, so I decided to take a stand on it," Lynden Dorval, a teacher at Ross Sheppard High School in Edmonton, said Friday.

"These are high school students. These are not little kids. It's time to become an adult and take responsibility for your own actions."

Dorval, 61, has been suspended by the Edmonton Public School Board for refusing for more than a year to stop handing out zeros for assignments that haven't been completed.

The physics teacher said he knew that his action would lead to an equal and opposite reaction from the board.

"I think now that I've gone public it's guaranteed I'll be terminated," he said. "I'm embarrassing my employer, not being a good employee.

"But I was prepared for that. I have 35 years (in). I can collect my pension."

He said he plans to appeal the indefinite suspension by arguing the principal who ordered the no-zero policy was acting beyond his authority.

Dorval, born in Thunder Bay, Ont., and raised in Edmonton, has taught chemistry and later physics.

He said things changed a year and a half ago when the principal ordered "out of the blue" that zeros would no longer be handed out.

Instead, students who didn't turn in their reports or write exams would have to make up the work.

Edgar Schmidt, superintendent of the Edmonton Public School Board, said principals have been given latitude based on research.

The theory, he said, is that a zero doesn't reflect a student's knowledge of a course. Missing an assignment may actually indicate behaviour problems or other issues.

Schmidt said the more effective method is to get a student to do the work through additional classes, after school or at home.

"It's much better for us to let students know they're not let off the hook by not completing assignments," he said.

"Sometimes just indicating a zero can be interpreted we're just giving up on you and you're not worth the effort — and that's the piece we do not want to see happen."

[Samhain]

I live in Edmonton and the teacher has had a huge amount of support from citizens and the media.  My wife is also a teacher and she frequently tells me the bureauacracy within the profession has not only made her job very difficult but it has also taken away much of the joy she got from teaching compared to when she first started. 

[Unlimited]

Well at least they acknowledge there is a problem with the way they are teaching/scoring students. This is a pretty stupid rule however. Seems to be at the very least a horrible patch slapped on attempting to affect a symptom and not the underlying issue. If your going to admit the system has problems you can't start to pick and choose which elephant in the room you want to deal with.

[EhJayArr]

My best friend's wife is a 4th grade teacher. She says that they've stripped away pretty much every possible punishment, and she has students that simply don't do their homework, play on phones during class, and even walk out--just leave--in the middle of class.

The punishment for walking out? Chat with the principal and go back to class. After seeing how lightly the first kid got off, she had 3 more (normally well-behaved) students do the same thing.

[Johnny Slick]

I wouldn't want this to be codified into law, but why *can't* the teacher just allow kids to make up work? This doesn't sound like a "we no longer give out zeroes" policy so much as it is "we don't have set-in-stone deadlines except for, like, the end of the term or something." Boy oh boy, better than learn this now than the crushing truth that once they get to university they will... mostly be able to make up missed assignments or at least get partial credit for late ones.

As for the support the teacher is getting, it doesn't surprise me that there are a cadre of parents or non-parent citizens who think schools have gotten soft or something and we should be harder on kids than their teachers were hard on them.

[EhJayArr]

I wouldn't want this to be codified into law, but why *can't* the teacher just allow kids to make up work? This doesn't sound like a "we no longer give out zeroes" policy so much as it is "we don't have set-in-stone deadlines except for, like, the end of the term or something." Boy oh boy, better than learn this now than the crushing truth that once they get to university they will... mostly be able to make up missed assignments or at least get partial credit for late ones.

As for the support the teacher is getting, it doesn't surprise me that there are a cadre of parents or non-parent citizens who think schools have gotten soft or something and we should be harder on kids than their teachers were hard on them.

Some of the schools I'm familiar with in Houston have similar "no zero" policies--assignments that are never completed simply aren't factored into the final grade; the idea is that no students are supposed to fail a class no matter what.

[Ah.hell]

I wouldn't want this to be codified into law, but why *can't* the teacher just allow kids to make up work? This doesn't sound like a "we no longer give out zeroes" policy so much as it is "we don't have set-in-stone deadlines except for, like, the end of the term or something." Boy oh boy, better than learn this now than the crushing truth that once they get to university they will... mostly be able to make up missed assignments or at least get partial credit for late ones.

Just like life outside of school. 

[andrewclunn]

Wow.  This wasn't even a possibility just a decade ago (when I was in high school).

[Johnny Slick]

I wouldn't want this to be codified into law, but why *can't* the teacher just allow kids to make up work? This doesn't sound like a "we no longer give out zeroes" policy so much as it is "we don't have set-in-stone deadlines except for, like, the end of the term or something." Boy oh boy, better than learn this now than the crushing truth that once they get to university they will... mostly be able to make up missed assignments or at least get partial credit for late ones.

Just like life outside of school.

Oh yeah, I know right!? Just last week I forgot to do a plan re-rate I had scheduled for Tuesday. I did it on Wednesday instead. THE HORROR

[Guillermo]

You should allow zeros on missing homework, and if you wish leniency for those students that want to improve.

[David E.]

Flip Side: Honor Student Jailed for missing too much school

A 17-year-old Houston honor student jailed 24 hours for missing too much school likely spent the night surrounded by "every type of criminal that exists," one Houston defense attorney said.

Diane Tran, an 11th-grade honor student at Willis High School near Houston, was sent to jail for 24 hours last Wednesday by Judge Lanny Moriarty and ordered to pay a $100 fine for excessive truancy.

It’s unclear how many days Tran missed, but state law reportedly permits only 10 absences in a six-month period.

Tran, who works full-time at a dry-cleaning business and part-time for a wedding planner, has been supporting her brother and sister since her parents separated and her mother moved away.

[Johnny Slick]

YEAH THAT WILL TEACH THOSE STUPID KIDS TO WORK 3 JOBS AND SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY WHILE STILL GOING TO SCHOOL AND MAINTAINING EXCELLENT GRADES WE NEED DISCIPLINE LIBS THAT'S WHY THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET

[Shadow Of A Doubt]

YEAH THAT WILL TEACH THOSE STUPID KIDS TO WORK 3 JOBS AND SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY WHILE STILL GOING TO SCHOOL AND MAINTAINING EXCELLENT GRADES WE NEED DISCIPLINE LIBS THAT'S WHY THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET

I AGREE JOHNNY WHEN WILL TEHSE LIBTARDS LEARN THAT EVERTHING IN LIVE MUSNT BE GIVEN TO WIMPS OF OF THE BACKS OF GOD-FEARIN FOLK LIKE OURSELVES WHO FOUGHT THE GERMANS FOR OUR RIHTS TO A CAPSLOCK KEY. AMEN

[Johnny Slick]

YEAH THAT WILL TEACH THOSE STUPID KIDS TO WORK 3 JOBS AND SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY WHILE STILL GOING TO SCHOOL AND MAINTAINING EXCELLENT GRADES WE NEED DISCIPLINE LIBS THAT'S WHY THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET

I AGREE JOHNNY WHEN WILL TEHSE LIBTARDS LEARN THAT EVERTHING IN LIVE MUSNT BE GIVEN TO WIMPS OF OF THE BACKS OF GOD-FEARIN FOLK LIKE OURSELVES WHO FOUGHT THE GERMANS FOR OUR RIHTS TO A CAPSLOCK KEY. AMEN

MERKA LAND OF THE FRE

[Beleth]

I had an Advanced Placement teacher in high school whose homework assignments were all due on the same day: one week before the last day of school. You could turn it in ahead of time, of course. If it was in, he'd grade it. If it wasn't in, you got a zero.

But it's one of those "you have to show you know the rules in order to be allowed to break the rules" situations.