Author Topic: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities  (Read 601 times)

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Offline neksys

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Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« on: Jun 25, 2012, 02:03:17 PM »
I'm starting to see more and more news stories pop up re: anti wi-fi/smart metres/EMF/etc etc folks. They are getting more organized, campaigning municipalities, putting up signs and so on.

In my small town, this is front page news: Woman wants city to nix its Wi-FI.

Are there any quick-reference resources out there to help debunk this nonsense?

Offline superdave

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #1 on: Jun 25, 2012, 02:05:41 PM »
unlike for vaccines, the day-to-day usefulness of WiFi is so readily apparent to even the lay person, that I can't imagine anti wifi hysteria taking hold.  This is not the most logical defense of wifi, but it will probably work.

Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #2 on: Jun 25, 2012, 02:16:06 PM »
The FCC has guidelines for RF exposure. Google maximum permissible exposure to RF. Basically, wifi doesn't have enough power to do anything to you.

Edit:

This is a pretty good explanation.

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/fcc-maximum-permissible-exposure.htm
« Last Edit: Jun 25, 2012, 02:42:07 PM by Citizen Skeptic »
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Offline rreppy

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #3 on: Jun 25, 2012, 07:03:40 PM »
The FCC has guidelines for RF exposure. Google maximum permissible exposure to RF. Basically, wifi doesn't have enough power to do anything to you.

Yes, but that never stops the crazies. Genetically modified food doesn't hurt you either, but look at the brouhaha about that! Proximity to a power line still lowers property values, and Corning Dow still went bankrupt defending silicone transplants even though no proof was ever offerred of their hurting anyone. One could go on and on...
The true strength of a people is best shown in how they treat the most defenseless among them.

Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #4 on: Jun 25, 2012, 08:29:18 PM »
You know, there is a great study sitting out there for some enterprising young grad student. It could be done retrospectively too. The study would be to look at the difference in cancer rates between amateur radio operators (they're around strong RF fields and usually are set up to measure them) and the general population.
Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers. -- Bernard Haisch

Offline Morvis13

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #5 on: Jun 25, 2012, 08:48:40 PM »
Just have to ask the crazy how they got to the town hall?
If they stepped outside at all then they had WAY more Radiation exposure then any pile of wifi could give.

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Morvis' Law: Anything that does go wrong is my fault.

Offline smithkhome

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #6 on: Jun 25, 2012, 09:12:23 PM »
Seems like this anti-wifi hysteria is really big in Canada. I wonder why. Is it just that the leading proponents happen to live there?

Offline neksys

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #7 on: Jun 26, 2012, 04:26:51 PM »
Seems like this anti-wifi hysteria is really big in Canada. I wonder why. Is it just that the leading proponents happen to live there?

There was a pretty big group in Ontario who made a real fuss about wi-fi in schools, I believe they were the first to do so. They were backed by the "Ontario English Catholic Teacher's Association," which represents a pretty considerable number of teachers, and a national news story was born.

My other theory is that Canada, on account of its tiny population relative to its landmass, has enough remote communities (or big enough parks in urban centres) to prevent the theory from being dismissed outright. If you're living in LA or the eastern seaboard, you are going to be bathed in pretty much uniform "radiation" such that the claim that you can tell when wi-fi is turned on in a house is completely impossible.

Up here, with several hours drive between cities (and obvious wi-fi sources), there is at least the ring of plausibility to the claim that a person can tell the difference.

My final theory is that with universal health care, its way easier to make ridiculous claims when you aren't paying deductibles or premiums or risking the dreaded "pre-existing heart disorder" finding on the record.

Offline neksys

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #8 on: Jun 26, 2012, 04:28:27 PM »
Just have to ask the crazy how they got to the town hall?
If they stepped outside at all then they had WAY more Radiation exposure then any pile of wifi could give.

They now theorize that because the wi-fi waves are pulsed and "organized" they are more harmful than the more powerful - but less coherent - waves coming from the sun. No, seriously, thats the stock "answer" to your obvious truth.

Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #9 on: Jun 26, 2012, 04:40:24 PM »
Just have to ask the crazy how they got to the town hall?
If they stepped outside at all then they had WAY more Radiation exposure then any pile of wifi could give.

They now theorize that because the wi-fi waves are pulsed and "organized" they are more harmful than the more powerful - but less coherent - waves coming from the sun. No, seriously, thats the stock "answer" to your obvious truth.

Well yeah. Nothing hurts like a string of 1's. Now if they were all 0's, you'd feel nothing.
Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers. -- Bernard Haisch

Offline Morvis13

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #10 on: Jun 27, 2012, 07:58:41 AM »
Just have to ask the crazy how they got to the town hall?
If they stepped outside at all then they had WAY more Radiation exposure then any pile of wifi could give.

They now theorize that because the wi-fi waves are pulsed and "organized" they are more harmful than the more powerful - but less coherent - waves coming from the sun. No, seriously, thats the stock "answer" to your obvious truth.

Well yeah. Nothing hurts like a string of 1's. Now if they were all 0's, you'd feel nothing.

Just turn on your AM/FM radio to mess with them.
Those waves are a) stronger, b) longer c) more prolific d) just as organized e) everywhere.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Morvis' Law: Anything that does go wrong is my fault.

Offline DonA1979

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #11 on: Jun 27, 2012, 08:10:18 AM »
I just finished doing a study at work on radiofrequency exposures.  It was at a site that has 3 different broadcasting antennas (2 shortwave and 1 WiFi).  The equipment these guys are using would be more powerful than anything used at home or at a Starbucks.  Their exposures, at the highest recorded observation, was 0.08 mW/m2.  For their equipment the acceptable maximum exposure value would have been approximately 14 mW/m2.

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Offline Morvis13

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #12 on: Jun 27, 2012, 08:19:52 AM »
We had a mini Cell tower measured for its radiation and you'd have to camp on top of it for 3 weeks to be equivilant to listening to your iPod for an hour.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Morvis' Law: Anything that does go wrong is my fault.

Offline marcparis

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #13 on: Jun 28, 2012, 03:16:24 AM »
Cell phone towers remain the big issue in France, while the wifi hysteria has calmed a bit (for example I think the Paris city librarians have given up their opposition).

But a company has now launched wifi service in the Paris metro, and of course the staff unions are bitching. The service is only available in stations, no on trains, but the spokesman from the leading anti EM group says: "the tunnels reflect and focus the waves, and the trains are made of metal which concentrates the radiation!"

I don't see the interest: the entire network already has cellphone service with data ability almost all the time.

Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Anti Wi-Fi Hysteria in other communities
« Reply #14 on: Jun 28, 2012, 10:15:12 AM »
the spokesman from the leading anti EM group says: "the tunnels reflect and focus the waves, and the trains are made of metal which concentrates the radiation!"

No wonder the French love Jerry Lewis.  :D
Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers. -- Bernard Haisch

 

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