Author Topic: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.  (Read 1713 times)

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Offline Plastique

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #15 on: Jun 30, 2012, 05:59:17 AM »
Double your workload (getting there by adding 10-15 min/week) , and put some variety in intensity into your routine.

What for—do you think that would help her gain muscle and strength? Or is that advice geared towards fat loss?

Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #16 on: Jun 30, 2012, 06:00:11 AM »
There is also some adaptation to the muscle types, you can alter some of the fast twitch to slow twitch and vice versa, depending on how you use it.

I somehow doubt one can intra convert Type I fibres to Type IIx fibres.

Conversion the other way, II -> I (at least in a characteristic sense), requires large volumes of heavy aerobic training.

Fibre type composition is largely genetically determined.  Which is why sprinters are born, not made.

Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #17 on: Jun 30, 2012, 06:19:41 AM »
Double your workload (getting there by adding 10-15 min/week) , and put some variety in intensity into your routine.

What for—do you think that would help her gain muscle and strength? Or is that advice geared towards fat loss?

If one just does what they always did, they will not improve.  Indeed once the body adapts to a workload (which might take a week or three) then fitness can actually fall without an appropriate additional stimulus in workload (workload being a combination of duration and intensity).

The OP felt that her 3 hours / week wasn't doing much for her.  Admittedly I don't know what the OP's goals are, but since they are doing cardio, presumably they are not looking to increase strength but are looking for the benefits of doing aerobic endurance training.

3 hours / week is, frankly, bugger all from an aerobic endurance training perspective (but it's 3 hours better than sitting on the couch eating crap).  6 hours / week and one is only just getting moderately fit.

Doubling of duration from 3 to 6 hours along with some additional intensity will see an improvement in the body's aerobic infrastructure (e.g. increased capillarisation, increased heart stroke volume and cadiac output, increased mitochondrial density, increased muscle glycogen storage) leading to significantly improved aerobic abilities (increased VO2 max, increased lactate threshold, greater endurance and ability to sustain higher power/speed for longer).  Sufficient hard aerobic training will see some hypertrophy of Type I muscle fibres.

It will also result an increase in energy metabolised and if calorie intake is kept moderate, weight loss through reduction in excess body fat.  It will not affect strength (if you want to increase strength, do strength training).

Offline Karyn

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #18 on: Jun 30, 2012, 06:37:01 AM »
My only goal with the cardio at this point is the basic health benefits.  When I started all of this a year ago, it was to get back into shape and lose some weight.  I've pretty much accomplished those goals, so now I'm more interested in gaining strength (through weight lifting) and maintaining my cadiovascular health.  It does not seem to me that weight lifting alone would do much towards that maintenance.

I was actually looking for some feedback on the article, rather than necessarily feedback on my own routine, but I'll take both. :D
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Offline Tatyana

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #19 on: Jun 30, 2012, 06:38:37 AM »
Double your workload (getting there by adding 10-15 min/week) , and put some variety in intensity into your routine.

What for—do you think that would help her gain muscle and strength? Or is that advice geared towards fat loss?

If one just does what they always did, they will not improve.  Indeed once the body adapts to a workload (which might take a week or three) then fitness can actually fall without an appropriate additional stimulus in workload (workload being a combination of duration and intensity).

The OP felt that her 3 hours / week wasn't doing much for her.  Admittedly I don't know what the OP's goals are, but since they are doing cardio, presumably they are not looking to increase strength but are looking for the benefits of doing aerobic endurance training.

3 hours / week is, frankly, bugger all from an aerobic endurance training perspective (but it's 3 hours better than sitting on the couch eating crap).  6 hours / week and one is only just getting moderately fit.

Doubling of duration from 3 to 6 hours along with some additional intensity will see an improvement in the body's aerobic infrastructure (e.g. increased capillarisation, increased heart stroke volume and cadiac output, increased mitochondrial density, increased muscle glycogen storage) leading to significantly improved aerobic abilities (increased VO2 max, increased lactate threshold, greater endurance and ability to sustain higher power/speed for longer).  Sufficient hard aerobic training will see some hypertrophy of Type I muscle fibres.

It will also result an increase in energy metabolised and if calorie intake is kept moderate, weight loss through reduction in excess body fat.  It will not affect strength (if you want to increase strength, do strength training).

She has stated in this thread (and a few others) she wants to increase strength and muscle mass.

Offline Plastique

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #20 on: Jun 30, 2012, 08:12:21 AM »
The OP felt that her 3 hours / week wasn't doing much for her.  Admittedly I don't know what the OP's goals are, but since they are doing cardio, presumably they are not looking to increase strength but are looking for the benefits of doing aerobic endurance training.

Right, I assumed she'd said in this thread that she was looking to build muscle. That's something I knew, and presumed you knew, thus the confusion.

3 hours / week is, frankly, bugger all from an aerobic endurance training perspective.  6 hours / week and one is only just getting moderately fit.

Fucking hell, it's amazing how perspectives vary between different groups of physical culture enthusiasts.

It will also result an increase in energy metabolised and if calorie intake is kept moderate, weight loss through reduction in excess body fat.  It will not affect strength (if you want to increase strength, do strength training).

More energy burned through increased mitochondrial density? I wonder how much of an effect on BMR that has in the real world. And I wonder what the training threshold is for a noticeable difference.

Online lonely moa

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #21 on: Jun 30, 2012, 02:20:04 PM »


Hmmm, better hit the track again for a few laps...
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2012, 06:58:05 PM by lonely moa »
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Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #22 on: Jun 30, 2012, 09:33:38 PM »
Right, I assumed she'd said in this thread that she was looking to build muscle. That's something I knew, and presumed you knew, thus the confusion.

Sorry, I don't spend my days tracking the content of threads by pseudonymous people I don't know.  I just respond to the content provided.

3 hours / week is, frankly, bugger all from an aerobic endurance training perspective.  6 hours / week and one is only just getting moderately fit.

Fucking hell, it's amazing how perspectives vary between different groups of physical culture enthusiasts.

I'm not here to sugar coat stuff for people either.  Getting into good physical shape takes consistent hard work over long periods. 

I get the impression from many they are totally unrealistic about what is required and yet they expect miracles from doing bugger all exercise.

Too much namby pamby bullshit advice warning people about the dangers of working hard.  Get over it.

Overtraining is really, really hard to do and is exceptionally rare.


It will also result an increase in energy metabolised and if calorie intake is kept moderate, weight loss through reduction in excess body fat.  It will not affect strength (if you want to increase strength, do strength training).

More energy burned through increased mitochondrial density? I wonder how much of an effect on BMR that has in the real world. And I wonder what the training threshold is for a noticeable difference.

The fitter you are, the higher the absolute intensity (i.e. rate of calorie metabolism) you can sustain for any given amount of time spent training.

When I am training, my daily calorie expenditure through exercise is higher than my BMR.

Online lonely moa

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #23 on: Jun 30, 2012, 11:39:09 PM »

Fucking hell, it's amazing how perspectives vary between different groups of physical culture enthusiasts.


It's all in what one wants to achieve and how one defines fitness .  There's fitness as health, sports and activity fitness and competitive sports fitness (and one more, elite sports fitness).  There's genetic fitness as well.  Being able to produce and raise viable offspring. 

My mountain lion is incredibly fit and never stepped paw on a treadmill.

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Offline Plastique

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #24 on: Jul 01, 2012, 03:15:54 AM »
Sorry, I don't spend my days tracking the content of threads by pseudonymous people I don't know.

I'm not here to sugar coat stuff for people either.  Getting into good physical shape takes consistent hard work over long periods. 

I get the impression from many they are totally unrealistic about what is required and yet they expect miracles from doing bugger all exercise.

Too much namby pamby bullshit advice warning people about the dangers of working hard.  Get over it.




I just respond to the content provided.

You don't even do that—she mentioned her weight training in this thread.

Offline Tatyana

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #25 on: Jul 01, 2012, 03:55:14 AM »
Right, I assumed she'd said in this thread that she was looking to build muscle. That's something I knew, and presumed you knew, thus the confusion.

Sorry, I don't spend my days tracking the content of threads by pseudonymous people I don't know.  I just respond to the content provided.

3 hours / week is, frankly, bugger all from an aerobic endurance training perspective.  6 hours / week and one is only just getting moderately fit.

Fucking hell, it's amazing how perspectives vary between different groups of physical culture enthusiasts.

I'm not here to sugar coat stuff for people either.  Getting into good physical shape takes consistent hard work over long periods. 

I get the impression from many they are totally unrealistic about what is required and yet they expect miracles from doing bugger all exercise.

Too much namby pamby bullshit advice warning people about the dangers of working hard.  Get over it.

Overtraining is really, really hard to do and is exceptionally rare.


It will also result an increase in energy metabolised and if calorie intake is kept moderate, weight loss through reduction in excess body fat.  It will not affect strength (if you want to increase strength, do strength training).

More energy burned through increased mitochondrial density? I wonder how much of an effect on BMR that has in the real world. And I wonder what the training threshold is for a noticeable difference.

The fitter you are, the higher the absolute intensity (i.e. rate of calorie metabolism) you can sustain for any given amount of time spent training.

When I am training, my daily calorie expenditure through exercise is higher than my BMR.

No need to get your lycra tights in a bunch mate.

Not everyone has the same training goals as you do, and introducing training to newbs like they have the same goals as you could actually be detrimental and make people very despondent about exercising, which is something we really don't need with the current obesity crisis.

You are knowledgeable, but more often than not, people get lost in the details.

As well, while you might know about endurance training, I have the sneaking suspicion you do not have any idea of how difficult it is for a woman to put on any significant amount of muscle.

Most people do not want to be endurance athletes.

Being sensible about training is not being 'namby-pamby' as these bodies do have to last a lifetime, and while it is easier to replace a knee joint than a heart, there isn't much that can be done with a damaged rotator cuff.

You do seem a wee bit grumpy, maybe you are over-training, it does make people really irritable.


Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #26 on: Jul 01, 2012, 06:32:32 PM »
Sorry, I don't spend my days tracking the content of threads by pseudonymous people I don't know.

I'm not here to sugar coat stuff for people either.  Getting into good physical shape takes consistent hard work over long periods. 

I get the impression from many they are totally unrealistic about what is required and yet they expect miracles from doing bugger all exercise.

Too much namby pamby bullshit advice warning people about the dangers of working hard.  Get over it.




I just respond to the content provided.

You don't even do that—she mentioned her weight training in this thread.

She mentioned going to a gym.  Only possible mention of a weights before I posted was something about a "5x5 stronglifts program".  Everything else was about all the cardio work.

I still stand behind my comments that if people expect significant physical benefits to occur on very limited training, they are being unrealistic.

Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #27 on: Jul 01, 2012, 06:56:23 PM »
No need to get your lycra tights in a bunch mate.

Not everyone has the same training goals as you do, and introducing training to newbs like they have the same goals as you could actually be detrimental and make people very despondent about exercising, which is something we really don't need with the current obesity crisis.

I am just being realistic. Where did I say anything about what her goals should be?

I read that someone doing 3hrs/week of what seems to be moderate cardio and something else called 5x5 stronglifts was wondering why they are not seeing much improvement in their physique.  That's a no brainer, they simply don't train enough.  If you don't like the reality of the message, not a lot I can do about that.


You are knowledgeable, but more often than not, people get lost in the details.

Really?  So the message of "you need to make some changes to improve" and "you need to train more, and add a little more intensity to what you are doing" is too complex to understand, even for a beginner?    If that's too hard for someone to fathom, well you're right, I'm not sure I can help.


As well, while you might know about endurance training, I have the sneaking suspicion you do not have any idea of how difficult it is for a woman to put on any significant amount of muscle.

I made no assumption about her sex. 

And given the amount of training the OP says she does, it's hardly surprising there's a limited increase in muscle mass. 

I am under no illusions about the fact that the sort of goals you speak of (a woman seeking to gain muscle mass) requires lots of HARD WORK.  Yet people seem to think one can do it on bugger all training.  Sorry if the truth hurts.

Most people do not want to be endurance athletes.

I never suggested anything of the sort.


Being sensible about training is not being 'namby-pamby' as these bodies do have to last a lifetime, and while it is easier to replace a knee joint than a heart, there isn't much that can be done with a damaged rotator cuff.

I haven't suggested anything that would cause acute or chronic injury. Have a look at my suggestion of how to increase the workload at a sensible, sustainable and manageable rate. 

Doing what you've always done will not result in improvements, that's just a basic fact of life.  So if there is no improvement (as the OP said) then something needs to change.  In this case, to get what they want (a better physique) they'll need to train more and harder.


You do seem a wee bit grumpy, maybe you are over-training, it does make people really irritable.

Actually quite the opposite, I am not training at present as I am unable to use my prosthetic leg and have to wait until I get a new one so I can walk and ride again.

Online Cognoscento

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #28 on: Jul 01, 2012, 07:38:53 PM »
That study certainly didn't apply to me.  I lost over 80lbs in a relatively short period (18 months) on nothing but cardio.  I know that's just aniticdotal, but the processies described in that study were clearly not at work in my case.  In addition, I've been suffering from hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's Disease) since well before my athletic transformation.  Riddle me THAT!

ETA:

This study (https://physsportsmed.org/doi/10.3810/psm.2011.09.1933) would seem to fly in the face of the claim of muscle deterioration mention in the OP article.

<<AHEM>>

« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2012, 07:57:59 PM by Cognoscento »
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Online lonely moa

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Re: Interesting find on Cardio workouts.
« Reply #29 on: Jul 01, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »


And there are 70 somethings (74, actually) that never run or ride a bike.  They just go to the gym once a fortnight if they feel like it, but they do eat properly.  His wife is the same age.  I like these photos better than the ones above. 


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