Topic: Episode #367

[Trinoc]

I did look at ratios (some) directly, I directly calculated by myself  for 2 examples, cholin and thiamin (in my original reply).
I'll do more examples in order:

(click to show/hide)

Votamin A
In  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake
Best sources are: "carrots, carrot juice, turkey, pumpkin", and RDA is 3000ug
But in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A
6500ug in 100gr of beef liver
835ug in 100gr of carrots
~50gr of liver - 65Kcal (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2)
350gr carrots - 180Kcal (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2383/2)

Also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A):

The conclusion that can be drawn from the newer research is that fruits and vegetables are not as useful for obtaining vitamin A as was thought; in other words, the IUs that these foods were reported to contain were worth much less than the same number of IUs of fat-dissolved oils

B2
Wikipedia is less helpful (no exact numbers), I found here: http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-high-in-riboflavin-vitamin-B2.php
Liver: 4.6mg per 100g serving or 270% of the DV -  ~50Kcal for 1 DV.
Next best food source listed (not supplement) is almonds:  1.01mg (60% DV) of vitamin B2 per 100 gram serving  -  900Kcal (1 DV).

B3
Liver: the most niacin (B3) with 16.7mg per 100g serving or ~100% of the DV - ~135Kcal for 1 DV.
Peanuts provide 14.9mg (75% DV) in a 100 gram serving - 630Kcal.

B5
Liver 8.3mg per 100g serving or 83% of the DV - 160kcal
Bran of rice/wheat - 7.4mg (74% DV) per 100g serving - ~500Kcal (who eats just the bran???)

I can do more - but note that a few servings of beef liver/meat will deliver everything you need, this is why eating vegetable diet you have to have, and I guess this is the source of the recommendation to eat as much varied nutrition as you possibly can - you simply have to.
And it is also not as bio-available in vegetables, which make sense evolutionary.

You are mixing up different recommended levels here, e.g. DV vs. RDA, which makes it confusing to make comparisons.

Also, I haven't checked all of your data but one significant error jumps out in the first few lines: 3000ug of Vitamin A is not the RDA (Recommended Dietary Allowance) but the UL (Tolerable upper intake level). That is, the maximum level which can be taken without risking toxic effects. The RDA is 900ug.

[GodSlayer]

When speaking to someone who is in the car, it's reasonable to stop talking in the middle of a sentence to concentrate on something happening on the road, and all but the most unperceptive of passengers will understand the reason and wait until you can resume. Do the same thing on a phone and within about 5 seconds you are likely to hear "Hello! Hello! Are you still there?", and if you don't immediately respond explaining that you can't speak because something important is happening on the road (rather defeating the object of stopping speaking in the first place) then they will either assume you are not taking any notice of what they are telling you (which may well be true), or they will assume they have lost a signal and hang up and call again, at which point you have the option of either answering the call and risking your safety, or ignoring it and appearing to be trying to ignore the caller.

saying 'hang on!' immediately would prevent any of this. if you're unable to move and talk at the same time, no worries--how important was that call, anyway? if it's THAT important that you're aching to pick up the phone so much that you have to weigh up the risk, just pull the fuck over in the first place--an important call deserves your full attention even if unimportant driving doesn't.

[Trinoc]

saying 'hang on!' immediately would prevent any of this. if you're unable to move and talk at the same time, no worries--how important was that call, anyway? if it's THAT important that you're aching to pick up the phone so much that you have to weigh up the risk, just pull the fuck over in the first place--an important call deserves your full attention even if unimportant driving doesn't.

You clearly have the luxury of living somewhere where it's generally possible to find somewhere to pull over in less time than it takes for the phone to switch over to voicemail or to end the call. In most parts of London, finding somewhere to stop without causing an obstruction if a major logistical exercise at any time of day or night. It's unlikely I could even manage that in the street where I live. From about half a mile from home I have to start scanning for potential parking spaces in the highly likely even that my own street is fully parked up.

In any case, the whole premise was to compare driving while talking to a passenger to driving while talking on a phone, so what could happen if you pulled over to take the call is not applicable.

[esterin]

Yes, thanks
Retinol: I missed this and looked at the 4rd column in the table in wiki which is UL (table below), i off course used this value to both sides of the comparison.
The % DV - when i wrote 1 DV just a shorthand for 100% DV, but I used it correctly in the calc.
Notwithstanding  It is immaterial to the conclusions.
The conclusions are important, for me I was stunned to find this out -  to find out that essential nutrients are not largely or mainly in fruits and vegetables, it seems this fact is even actively hidden, for example it comes to comical levels, in a table regarding minerals and vitamins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake

Nutrient |   EAR | RDA/AI | UL | Unit           |     Top Sources in Common Measures, USDA[4]
Vitamin A    625 900    3000    µg                      carrots, carrot juice, turkey, pumpkin
Cyanocobalamin (B12)    2.0    2.4    ND    µg      fortified cereals, turkey, clams
Iron    6    8    45    mg                                       fortified cereals, turkey, walnuts, seeds

B12 and Iron and Vit-A - it is not even mentioned that best sources are red-meats and organ meats they prefer mentioning fortified food-products, "fortified cereals", really?- this is ridiculous.

[Whitbar]

Did anyone else notice Bob said skittle instead of skillet?

[ShadowSot]

 I'm probably not even going to get close to correctly guessing a WTN again, so as far as I'm concerned:

[arthwollipot]

Can you post that a little larger please? I don't think my screen is small enough. :p

[ShadowSot]

Can you post that a little larger please? I don't think my screen is small enough. :p

Oops, I'm used to forums that automatically cut down the size.

[Shamash]

Hi.  I listen to your podcast from time to time and I registered just to make a comment about your Kennewick man discussion.  I have a B.A. in anthropology and back when I was in school this was a hot topic.  One of you stated that the skeletal morphology of Kennewick man exhibited Caucasian features rather than Native American features.  This isn't entirely true. While this was Chatter's initial findings closer inspection by Chatters and Powell determined that Kennewick man was more closely related to the Ainu people of Japan.

[uolj]

Did anyone else notice Bob said skittle instead of skillet?

Yes, and it made me laugh and picture a skittle dancing around in a hot skillet, so much so that I didn't really pay attention to the rest of what he was saying.

[BigMik]

Tickets for the DragonCon private recording are now available: http://www.skepticalrobot.com/ticket-to-sgu-recording-DC/

Sorry for the delay.

Damn, Damn, DAMN!
It's on Sunday night - I'm getting on a plane back to Aus when it's on. Damn!

"Hello Qantas, how much to delay my return flight by 24 hrs?"

Mick

[gmalivuk]

Something that often gets left out in "is it okay to eat only animal products" discussions (yes, I've had multiple such) is the fact that there is an enormous difference between a diet consisting mostly or entirely of animal products, and a diet consisting mostly or entirely of what we in America tend to think of as proper "meat".  If you eat muscle tissue and fat and organ meat and milk and blood and marrow, it's rather simple to get everything your body needs.  This is the sort of diet historical peoples known for eating lots of meat tended to have.  A modern "meat only" diet, on the other hand, would likely consist primarily or entirely of muscle tissue and fat, at least for Americans.  I believe such a diet would far more easily lead to deficiencies in multiple substances than would a truly "paleo" carnivorous diet.

[wit of a twit]

WTN: sigmund freud, or maybe Gandhi

When you had the segment on Aura a joke popped into to my head, and am surprised jay didn't say it ...

Q:what do you call a state with out Aura?
A: Aura gone (Oregon)

[esterin]

gmalivuk
Firstly, same can be said about the reverse, if you take "American" non-meet diet, it would probably contain mostly refined cereals, refined corn and other  food-products, and not the myriad of vegetables, seeds, mushrooms, fruits nuts etc....  you require.
Secondly, you exaggerate, you don't need blood, nor marrow, and although i am not American (I lived only shortly in US as an illegal worker some 20yrs ago) and might be mistaken here but, are you saying that liver/eggs/milk are not properly American? 

Few month ago I read this book "My life as an Indian", (heard it, an audiobook)
http://ia600401.us.archive.org/31/items/cu31924028667974/cu31924028667974.pdf
By J. W. Shultz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Willard_Schultz
I highly recommend, this Schultz guy came to Montana and married into Black-feet Indians and lived with them or adjacent to them, the book frequently mentions food customs and food preparation by the Black-feet and other Great plain tribes.
He writes that the buffalo was so abundant that Black-feet wouldn't bother with anything beside tongue (most prized, most fat) and ribs (most fat) and would only hunt the fattest cows, they wouldn't touch fish nor fowl although trout was everywhere since it was lean "doesn't give you energy" (I quote from memory).
Later he lived through the transition to western diet - US government relief food - after the years of hunger ~1885, when railroads reached Montana and buffalo was exterminated by mass hunting.
As I know today, unlike back than, it is not the healthiest of populations, I wonder how they receive the recommendation to eat low-fat non animal product diet in order to be healthy, while they transitioned from some 80% fat by calories, 100% animal product diet, 0% vegetables,  to today's diet, and lost health and leanness in the process.

[gmalivuk]

are you saying that liver/eggs/milk are not properly American?

Liver is far less common here than a lot of places I've been, and milk and eggs are probably considered independent of whether a diet is high in meat or not.