Author Topic: Episode #388  (Read 3457 times)

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Offline Steven Novella

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Episode #388
« on: Dec 22, 2012, 11:14:50 AM »
This Day in Skepticism: Coelacanth
News Items: Sandy Hook Massacre, China Stabbing, AVN to Change Name, Megalapteryx Foot, Invisibility Cloak
Special Report: The Hobbit and High Frame Rate
Who's That Noisy
Science or Fiction
Steven Novella
Host, The Skeptics Guide
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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #1 on: Dec 22, 2012, 11:29:22 AM »
Thanks for the podcast dr Steve!
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Offline MagnusM

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #2 on: Dec 22, 2012, 11:34:11 AM »
Is WTN the first known recording of Korobeiniki (the Tetris theme)?

Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #3 on: Dec 22, 2012, 11:41:25 AM »
I think MagnusM might have nailed it again! I was checking out old Russian cylinder recordings but not being a Tetris fanatic I didn't recognise the tune. The recording sounds like the artefacts you'd get if you tried digital noise reduction on a cylinder recording.
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Offline Mr. Pedantic

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #4 on: Dec 22, 2012, 01:13:04 PM »
I'm confused. For WTN, do we have to identify the piece, or the instrument/location of the recording?

Also, re: 48fps Hobbit, I agree completely. I remember, when I watched Avatar in 3D the fact it was filmed in 24fps completely ruined the movie for me. Especially in those sweeping panoramic scenes I could see individual frames and transitions between individual frames; it made me very nauseated. The move to 48fps completely changes the picture. While I can still see some of the frame changes, it's much less obvious and lets me actually enjoy the film instead of trying not to be sick over someone else.

Offline dgiors

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #5 on: Dec 22, 2012, 01:39:31 PM »
Was going to say Tetris theme on guitar and violin. Sounds like I've been bested.

Offline br0kenc0dec

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #6 on: Dec 22, 2012, 02:53:03 PM »
i didn't win, but the WTN is Korobeiniki.
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Offline Sordid

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #7 on: Dec 22, 2012, 03:13:42 PM »
Nevermind.
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Offline tgraupmann

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #8 on: Dec 22, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »
Who's that noisy answer for #388.

It's the theme music from the Game "Braid" available on XBOX 360 market place.

It's also played in the movie "Indie Game" while reviewing the gameplay of "Braid".

The audio quality recording was pretty bad. You could have hooked up an "El Gato" to the XBOX 360 and recorded digital quality.
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Offline ConspicuousCarl

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #9 on: Dec 22, 2012, 05:51:49 PM »
Steve appears not to know that "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" do not mean the same thing.  All of this "military grade" bullshit isn't helpful either.
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2012, 05:53:59 PM by ConspicuousCarl »

Offline Stephen Dawson

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #10 on: Dec 22, 2012, 06:43:40 PM »
Thanks for the impressions on the HFR Hobbit (it's not here in Aus for a little while yet). A couple of technical corrections, though.

First, Steve, your high refresh rate TV is only slightly comparable to HFR film, digital. Yes, if you're watching Blu-ray movies at their native frame rate of 24fps (actually, 23.976, thank you very much NTSC!) then your TV will be showing 48 or perhaps even 72 or 96fps. But only the original 24 frames are actually from the source. The rest are generated by the TV itself, interpolating from the actual source frames.

This processing can often improve the viewer's ability to see things during moving scenes, but only some things. A cinematographer has to balance when filming moving things at 24fps between a fast shutter speed to keep the image sharp, and a slow shutter speed to allow sufficient motion blur to eliminate visible 'judder'. Judder is where you can see the picture jump from frame to frame.

Motion interpolation systems are very good at eliminating judder, but can do nothing about motion blur.

Unfortunately they have side effects. First, there are often clear distortions introduced into the picture. I normally refer to these as looking like a heat haze surrounding moving objects. Second, they tend to wash out things like random film grain (since basically the interpolating is showing frame averages half or more of the time). It is this which gives a glossy sheen to the image.

I've been reviewing TVs with this kind of processing for over a decade (it started back in 2000 with something called 'Digital Natural Motion' from Philips http://hifi-writer.com/wpblog/?p=1224). When I'm reviewing a TV, after checking out the processing to see whether it works and how much damage it does, I switch it off since it does not let you see the movie or whatever as it was originally shot. An occasional exception is Sony, which has a motion smoothing system that somehow avoids these problems, particularly on its home theatre projectors.

The Hobbit of course involves no interpolation, but actually captures double the number of frames from scratch. It should make everything clearer. Because of the higher frame rate the cinematographer can go for shorter exposure times without introducing judder, so there's less motion blur.

One correction: a TV with a higher refresh rate does not require a new cable for that reason alone. The refresh rate is purely internal to the TV. You may actually have changed to a lower frame rate. American analogue TV connection standards are at 60 hertz. If you moved to Blu-ray via HDMI, then you've likely dropped back to 24 hertz for a lot of content.

Rebecca: why don't digital projectors show HFR stuff? There's no reason in principle why they can't. But in practice projectors are designed for a specific set of input signals, and until recently 48fps content wasn't among them. Remember virtually everything for the cinema has been shot at 24fps since the late 1920s when the introduction of sound forced the adoption of a standard. HFR is truly revolutionary.

Home digital projectors and TVs should, likewise, be able to cope with 48fps ... except that it wasn't designed into them. I would expect future models to start supporting it, but then there's no 48fps source. A new version of Blu-ray could perhaps be developed, but that's unlikely to happen just for one movie. If 48fps becomes popular, though ...
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Offline Sordid

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #11 on: Dec 22, 2012, 07:17:27 PM »
Steve appears not to know that "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" do not mean the same thing.  All of this "military grade" bullshit isn't helpful either.

I'm far more disappointed by his wishy-washy "the evidence is messy" thing. The evidence isn't messy at all, countries that don't have ridiculously high numbers of guns in circulation don't have school shootings. It's not rocket science. And quite frankly I find this 18th century "having a gun means freedom, hurr durr" thing, how shall I put this, unworthy of a civilized nation in the 21st century.
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Offline SATAKARNAK

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2012, 08:03:43 PM »
Good episode
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2012, 08:14:32 PM by SATAKARNAK »

Offline Silly Llama

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2012, 08:17:56 PM »
The terms assault weapon and assault rifle are essentially used interchangeably in casual conversation are slightly different in technical terms.  In the USA the difference basically boils down to whether or not the firearm has the ability to fire at full auto or is limited to semi-automatic fire.  The Wikipedia article linked below has more details.  Considering that weapons such as the AR-15, which the Bushmaster rifle used in the massacre is based on, were made for the military calling them "military grade" might annoy pro-gun individuals but it is not in any way an unreasonable comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#Assault_rifles_vs._Assault_weapons

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Re: Episode #388
« Reply #14 on: Dec 22, 2012, 09:24:42 PM »
Isn't Steve engaging in a false equivalency fallacy here?  As much as I respect Steve, I have to agree with Rebecca this time.  Just because some unrealistic and hard to quantify ideas have been proposed to prevent school shootings doesn't mean they're all unequally unrealistic or hard to prove.  We don't even have to conduct any studies to know that arguments like blaming too many women or not enough religion are total nonsense.  But we can compare countries and states that have strict gun laws to those countries and states with relaxed gun laws and compare the rates of gun-related violence between them.  The problem at hand is not that the data is "messy" but that the radical anti-gun control ideology is preventing us from being able to have any sort of meaningful examination of the issue.  That's why anti-gun control ideologues always end up resorting to cherry picking data like cherry picking two whole cities out of the entire United States to use as their justification for their worldview.