Author Topic: Is VR finally here?  (Read 9834 times)

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Offline andy o

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2016, 09:28:34 AM »
Been waiting for years. I plan on waiting though, until the next-gen NV Pascal cards are out, saving up for that 980 successor.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2016, 12:05:00 PM »
I wonder what kind of technology will win out with this. We're getting to the kind of resolution and response time needed to really sell the experience, which is awesome, but I think I'm not going to really get into it until I can get some sort of interaction that can model both hands without gloves.
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Offline Sordid

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2016, 12:36:17 PM »
I think I'm not going to really get into it until I can get some sort of interaction that can model both hands without gloves.

Racing games with steering wheels, flight sims with joysticks, anything like that where you sit in a chair and keep your hands on the controls. That's basically the only use I can see for this tech. Flight sim players have head tracking now to be able to look around naturally, VR would take it to next level. Anything else, though, especially stuff like first person shooters where your character is actually running around? That's going to be awful.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 12:38:38 PM by Sordid »

Offline brilligtove

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2016, 01:10:54 PM »
I think I'm not going to really get into it until I can get some sort of interaction that can model both hands without gloves.

Racing games with steering wheels, flight sims with joysticks, anything like that where you sit in a chair and keep your hands on the controls. That's basically the only use I can see for this tech. Flight sim players have head tracking now to be able to look around naturally, VR would take it to next level. Anything else, though, especially stuff like first person shooters where your character is actually running around? That's going to be awful.

Awful because why? They might not be played in the home, but LARP style FPS/paintball could be pretty awesome.
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Offline andy o

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2016, 03:43:50 PM »
Yes, I don't see why FPS wouldn't benefit. I am looking forward to trying them, but I have been just fine not playing FPS specifically cause they induce nausea on me. I know VR induces nausea to some people, but I think it's more natural to look around than it is to stare at a static screen where the whole world is moving, and latency is said to be much improved in the consumer version of the Rift.

As it happens too, car and flight games are my favorite kind of game, and I can see a benefit playing third-person games as well, many of which I also have trouble playing for more than an hour or so (couldn't even play Mario 64 back in the day, but Zelda Ocarina of Time was fine).

Offline Sordid

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2016, 05:07:18 PM »
Awful because why? They might not be played in the home, but LARP style FPS/paintball could be pretty awesome.

So you're going to run around with a VR headset on your head? That sounds like a great way to blindly stumble over something, such as the damn thing's own cables that you're trailing behind you, and break a very expensive toy.  And how exactly are you going to aim with a VR headset on your head? It's going to have head tracking of some sort, but no way is it going to be precise and responsive enough to accommodate aiming in a serious FPS. Not to mention what if you want turn left in the game, then left again, then left again? Easy enough with a mouse, but what're you going to do with a VR headset, unscrew your head? You could of course just have the headset on while you sit at your desk and use traditional M+K controls, but that's a great way to give yourself motion sickness due to the fact that your sight tells your brain you're moving and looking around while the rest of your senses tell it you're not.

Offline Simon Jester

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2016, 06:09:42 PM »
Awful because why? They might not be played in the home, but LARP style FPS/paintball could be pretty awesome.

So you're going to run around with a VR headset on your head? That sounds like a great way to blindly stumble over something, such as the damn thing's own cables that you're trailing behind you, and break a very expensive toy.  And how exactly are you going to aim with a VR headset on your head? It's going to have head tracking of some sort, but no way is it going to be precise and responsive enough to accommodate aiming in a serious FPS. Not to mention what if you want turn left in the game, then left again, then left again? Easy enough with a mouse, but what're you going to do with a VR headset, unscrew your head? You could of course just have the headset on while you sit at your desk and use traditional M+K controls, but that's a great way to give yourself motion sickness due to the fact that your sight tells your brain you're moving and looking around while the rest of your senses tell it you're not.

did you see the video posted earlyer?

at 0.46 you see how they plan on simulating the walking around, It mite suck but I can't say until i have tried it.

Went to the Virtual Reality Los Angeles Winter Expo.  Here's some video I got (I'm the guy in the brown shirt).



Using an OR in tandum with a head camera mite also be interesting, see the real world in front of you with generated hud and cgi targets
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Offline Simon Jester

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2016, 06:20:37 PM »
expensive but it looks cool, exercise machines cost as much

http://www.virtuix.com/products/
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2016, 06:33:50 PM »
I'm thinking further ahead - California Voodoo Game type of play. (AR will be better than VR for that, but even so.) Imagine wireless AR/VR goggles with sub-millisecond response times and rock solid visual motion tracking including pinning the virtual environment to the physical environment. Add a belt and some ankle and wrist bands that track your physical limb and body location with great fidelity. Now you play a WoW style game in a paintball warehouse environment. Or a park. Or your house. You play Myst in an immersive virtual environment that adapts itself to your real physical environment. And so on.

The question isn't if this can happen - just really a matter of when the technology will become available. It might be another ten years - but it could be a lot sooner.
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Offline Sordid

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2016, 06:41:59 PM »
did you see the video posted earlyer?

at 0.46 you see how they plan on simulating the walking around, It mite suck but I can't say until i have tried it.

Right, so you're buying not only a VR headset for like six hundred bucks but also one of these omnidirectional treadmills for another few hundred. And a plastic gun controller for another couple hundred whose motion tracking is not going to be anywhere near precise enough to accurately aim with. And you're going to sort of awkwardly shuffle in place in this big slippery bowl while playing first-person shooters. And first-person shooters only, mind you. What about other genres? Is every game genre going to require several hundred dollars of investment in specialized hardware? That's without even getting into the question of how exactly you're going to control jumping, crouching, climbing, and basically any other movement that isn't walking or running.

Yeah, no. It should be abundantly clear why this whole idea is complete garbage. Sure, it's fun for five minutes as a public demo at a game show when someone else has paid for it, but the cost of it, the inconvenience of it, the limitations of it, and the rapidity with which the novelty will wear off make it completely unsuited for actually owning it and using it on a regular basis. I will eat an unwashed sock that's been worn for a week if this ever catches on in a major way among home users.

That said, I could see this becoming a basis for the resurgence of arcades. That was kinda the whole point of them, they were places where you could briefly rent gaming equipment that was too expensive, specialized, and inconvenient to be worth owning yourself. VR seems to fit those criteria perfectly.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:55:29 PM by Sordid »

Offline Simon Jester

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2016, 07:05:50 PM »
still cheaper than some exercise machine and this time I would actually use it, LOL   He explains that people will not be having 10 hr game sessions.

As i watch some of the videos on the site its interesting how this could change the way first person shooters work. with this device realism is more apparent. For instance it explains how we don't "strafe" in real life, we walk forward and shoot to the side.  when playing mine craft the audience wanted to know why the walking did not match the movement, currently games only walk at one speed.  We don't run backwards.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2016, 10:23:51 PM »
did you see the video posted earlyer?

at 0.46 you see how they plan on simulating the walking around, It mite suck but I can't say until i have tried it.

Right, so you're buying not only a VR headset for like six hundred bucks but also one of these omnidirectional treadmills for another few hundred. And a plastic gun controller for another couple hundred whose motion tracking is not going to be anywhere near precise enough to accurately aim with. And you're going to sort of awkwardly shuffle in place in this big slippery bowl while playing first-person shooters. And first-person shooters only, mind you. What about other genres? Is every game genre going to require several hundred dollars of investment in specialized hardware? That's without even getting into the question of how exactly you're going to control jumping, crouching, climbing, and basically any other movement that isn't walking or running.

Yeah, no. It should be abundantly clear why this whole idea is complete garbage. Sure, it's fun for five minutes as a public demo at a game show when someone else has paid for it, but the cost of it, the inconvenience of it, the limitations of it, and the rapidity with which the novelty will wear off make it completely unsuited for actually owning it and using it on a regular basis. I will eat an unwashed sock that's been worn for a week if this ever catches on in a major way among home users.

That said, I could see this becoming a basis for the resurgence of arcades. That was kinda the whole point of them, they were places where you could briefly rent gaming equipment that was too expensive, specialized, and inconvenient to be worth owning yourself. VR seems to fit those criteria perfectly.

I don't agree on the first part - it will just take time for the prices to come down or a more elegant solution to present itself. In the meantime:
Arcades. They'll be put in arcades.
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Offline Sordid

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2016, 11:42:56 PM »
Yeah, that's what I said. Arcades make sense. Home use not so much, except perhaps with the ultra-hardcore racing/flight sim enthusiast crowd, which is like three people.

Fair enough, the price might come down, maybe. Even if it does, though, I still see plenty of other problems in addition to the ones I already mentioned.

How about the sheer inconvenience of it? That treadmill thing and the plastic gun? You have to store those somewhere when you're not playing. You need some space around it to be able to move around in it, so you can't have it in a corner, and you're not just going to leave that in the middle of your living room when you're not using it, so that means you're going to have to move this fairly substantial piece of furniture every time you want to play. I basically stopped playing flight sims because I can't be bothered anymore to hook up and then put away my HOTAS joystick every time. This fucking thing? Forget it.

Then there's the design of the headset. It's just goggles with a strap, it's not balanced. All the weight is in front of your face, which is going to strain and cramp your neck muscles.

And then there are all the business and market issues this tech has, beautifully explained here:

(click to show/hide)

VR does seem like very cool tech but being cool is not enough. I can't help being hugely skeptical of its actual usefulness and commercial success.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 11:55:25 PM by Sordid »

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2016, 02:33:46 AM »
Sordid, I don't know you from Adam, but you seem sooooooo curmudgeonly.  Like to the point I feel like it is a character you are doing, because no one can that negative about EVERYTHING in  life.

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Re: oculus rift
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2016, 06:16:18 AM »
The running pad thing is absolutely something I'd buy. I used to have an elliptical in my living room and would play Call of Duty while on the elliptical and it was way more fun than just the machine+TV or just machine. Made the gameplay better too becaude my heartrate was up around 135-175 the whole time, spiking to "red zone" when things got intense and I'd start sprinting on the machine reflexively.

Now you're talking about a VR headset that lets me do that, but more? Hells yeah. SO did the same thing with Skyrim, and I guarantee would be all about drawing back a tensioned prop bow and walking around those dungeons merc'ing asses and taking souls.

Look if I could essentially LARPercise on a constant basis, I would, but the segment of people willing to dot that is tiny. VR stands to make that possible without needing to live in the same city.
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