Poll

Are you a humanist, in the sense of what the international humanist movement promotes?

Yes
23 (63.9%)
No
9 (25%)
Other
4 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?  (Read 6704 times)

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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2016, 08:35:54 PM »
Maybe humanism could be a good complement to skepticism. Humanism includes ethical values, which skepticism doesn't have much of in and of itself.

Yes.

But humanists are very religion-focused, as if religion is the only form of unreason. This is somewhat off-turning.

This has not been my experience. To me, you are describing atheists more than you are describing humanists - specifically that sub-set of atheists who are antitheists.

And they really, really need to stop claiming the non-religious demographic in general as humanists.

Yes. You are a humanist if you identify as a humanist, and your personal philosophy broadly agrees with humanistic principles. There are nonreligious people who are not humanists.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #136 on: June 09, 2016, 07:08:15 PM »
I'm so sorry I forgot this thread!

But humanists are very religion-focused, as if religion is the only form of unreason. This is somewhat off-turning.

This has not been my experience. To me, you are describing atheists more than you are describing humanists - specifically that sub-set of atheists who are antitheists.

Uhm, have you read any humanist books or followed them on Facebook? In addition, you can run across humanists who believe in woowoo.

And they really, really need to stop claiming the non-religious demographic in general as humanists.

Yes. You are a humanist if you identify as a humanist, and your personal philosophy broadly agrees with humanistic principles. There are nonreligious people who are not humanists.

Exactly. I'm generally opposed to groups claiming to represent entire demographics, so this is not directed only at humanists. Groups represent their own members.
"Large skepticism leads to large understanding. Small skepticism leads to small understanding. No skepticism leads to no understanding." - Xi Zhi

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #137 on: June 09, 2016, 07:34:15 PM »
I'm so sorry I forgot this thread!
It is kind of easier to follow a conversation when there isn't a gap of weeks between questions.  ;)

But humanists are very religion-focused, as if religion is the only form of unreason. This is somewhat off-turning.

This has not been my experience. To me, you are describing atheists more than you are describing humanists - specifically that sub-set of atheists who are antitheists.

Uhm, have you read any humanist books or followed them on Facebook? In addition, you can run across humanists who believe in woowoo.
Yeah, but I tend to lose interest in them pretty fast. I agree with their broad principles, I disagree with some of their details, there's room in the world for all types.

And they really, really need to stop claiming the non-religious demographic in general as humanists.

Yes. You are a humanist if you identify as a humanist, and your personal philosophy broadly agrees with humanistic principles. There are nonreligious people who are not humanists.

Exactly. I'm generally opposed to groups claiming to represent entire demographics, so this is not directed only at humanists. Groups represent their own members.
Indeed, and it doesn't require membership of a group to agree with and identify with broad philosophical principles.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #138 on: June 17, 2016, 03:18:38 PM »
I'm so sorry I forgot this thread!
It is kind of easier to follow a conversation when there isn't a gap of weeks between questions.  ;)

Sure yeah I know. :-[

But humanists are very religion-focused, as if religion is the only form of unreason. This is somewhat off-turning.

This has not been my experience. To me, you are describing atheists more than you are describing humanists - specifically that sub-set of atheists who are antitheists.

Uhm, have you read any humanist books or followed them on Facebook? In addition, you can run across humanists who believe in woowoo.
Yeah, but I tend to lose interest in them pretty fast. I agree with their broad principles, I disagree with some of their details, there's room in the world for all types.

I see. I agree with some of their stuff, but not others. And I wish they wouldn't do certain things they tend to do. Would that make me a humanist or not?

I'm somewhat frustrated that humanists (including yourself) seem unwilling to make a positive case for humanism on the basis that they are against proselytizing. By contrast, self-identified skeptics and atheists tend to be very happy in making their cases.

It would be amusing to hear the SGU discuss humanism some time, though I'm not aware of them doing it except for episode 10. A skeptic's look at it, so to speak. ;) At least Steve occasionally makes references to what he calls skepticism's sister movements, humanism and atheism.

And they really, really need to stop claiming the non-religious demographic in general as humanists.

Yes. You are a humanist if you identify as a humanist, and your personal philosophy broadly agrees with humanistic principles. There are nonreligious people who are not humanists.

Exactly. I'm generally opposed to groups claiming to represent entire demographics, so this is not directed only at humanists. Groups represent their own members.
Indeed, and it doesn't require membership of a group to agree with and identify with broad philosophical principles.

Absolutely, and humanists seem to agree (especially as they are prone to claiming the non-religious demographic as their own).

I identified as a skeptic before I signed up and joined the Swedish Skeptics Association, for example.
"Large skepticism leads to large understanding. Small skepticism leads to small understanding. No skepticism leads to no understanding." - Xi Zhi

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #139 on: June 18, 2016, 08:00:35 PM »
I'm somewhat frustrated that humanists (including yourself) seem unwilling to make a positive case for humanism on the basis that they are against proselytizing. By contrast, self-identified skeptics and atheists tend to be very happy in making their cases.
I'm mostly against proselytising because of my history with evangelical Christianity. The constant drive to "witness" was the main disagreement I had with them. It just felt creepy and wrong. So I try to never proselytise, especially in areas of religion and philosophy.

Except occasionally when it's fun because I know the audience quite well. :) I would never go up to a stranger and start trying to get them to convert to humanism. That'd be weird.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #140 on: July 07, 2016, 05:32:30 PM »
There is a difference between writing books to promote one's views (which Dawkins does) and knocking on strangers' doors to do so (which Jehovah's Witnesses do).

A thought: It seems that a lot of self-identified humanists tend to be pretty old on average, whereas a lot of self-identified skeptics or atheists tend to be pretty young on average. Why is that?
"Large skepticism leads to large understanding. Small skepticism leads to small understanding. No skepticism leads to no understanding." - Xi Zhi

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #141 on: July 07, 2016, 10:27:35 PM »
There is a difference between writing books to promote one's views (which Dawkins does) and knocking on strangers' doors to do so (which Jehovah's Witnesses do).

Yes. If I buy a book, I am voluntarily exposing myself to it. Similarly, if I go to a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall and ask questions. Them coming to me is rude and a little bit creepy, in my opinion.

A thought: It seems that a lot of self-identified humanists tend to be pretty old on average, whereas a lot of self-identified skeptics or atheists tend to be pretty young on average. Why is that?

I have not observed this, so I have no explanation.

Offline Redamare

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #142 on: July 08, 2016, 01:12:30 PM »
I respect that they have the courage of their convictions.
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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #143 on: July 08, 2016, 01:57:05 PM »
If their convictions are stupid, I don't respect their courage in holding them. I think it's a lot more courageous to look at your beliefs and change them in the face of evidence.
If we don't discover the mistakes of the future we are doomed to repeat them for the first time. - Ken M

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Are you a humanist (read the OP before you vote)?
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2016, 09:24:29 AM »
How do you feel about the charge that humanism is an ideology? I have personally not encountered any skeptic levelling that charge against humanism, but as Ronald Lindsay puts a lot of effort into refuting it, I suppose it has happened, at least from CSI members.
"Large skepticism leads to large understanding. Small skepticism leads to small understanding. No skepticism leads to no understanding." - Xi Zhi

 

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