Author Topic: Penn Jillette Weight Loss  (Read 6333 times)

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Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 02:13:05 PM »

Fuhrman's diet isn't vegan or vegetarian, but it would be easy to modify it.


You're being uncharacteristically charitable toward a high-carb, low-fat diet.

I would not characterize the above chart as high-carb, low-fat. I'd characterize it as balanced.

Balanced? That's a word that has lost all meaning and relevance in discussing diet.

It's the same as saying "I think it's good."

What, exactly, is the criteria for what is balanced and what is not balanced?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2016, 02:38:20 PM »

Fuhrman's diet isn't vegan or vegetarian, but it would be easy to modify it.


You're being uncharacteristically charitable toward a high-carb, low-fat diet.

I would not characterize the above chart as high-carb, low-fat. I'd characterize it as balanced.

Balanced? That's a word that has lost all meaning and relevance in discussing diet.

It's the same as saying "I think it's good."

What, exactly, is the criteria for what is balanced and what is not balanced?

I asked just that in another thread... no answer.  Maybe there isn't one.

Mark Hyman didn't think it was a useful term in a recent interview.
"The home of the brave and the land of the free; the less you know, the better off you'll be"

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2016, 05:04:35 PM »

Fuhrman's diet isn't vegan or vegetarian, but it would be easy to modify it.


You're being uncharacteristically charitable toward a high-carb, low-fat diet.

I would not characterize the above chart as high-carb, low-fat. I'd characterize it as balanced.

Balanced? That's a word that has lost all meaning and relevance in discussing diet.

It's the same as saying "I think it's good."

What, exactly, is the criteria for what is balanced and what is not balanced?


Balanced means that it has carbs AND fats AND protein, all in reasonable proportions. I.e. proportions recommended by most nutritionists not committed to one particular style of fad diet or another. As an example, a diet that prohibits or severely restricts any one of those three broad categories is not balanced.

We do have some common ground, though. I regard simple carbs such as white bread, white rice, and sugar as unhealthy, though I do use sugar (in moderation) because it tastes good. White bread and white rice have no taste so I eat them only when there is no alternative, such as at a restaurant when traveling. (Meat I won't eat even if there is no alternative, but that's a moral, rather than a health consideration.)

I asked just that in another thread... no answer.  Maybe there isn't one.

If I didn't answer the question it might be because you asked it in a thread I was not participating in at the time, or I just didn't notice it. I think it's the kind of question I'd have answered if I'd noticed it, but I make no effort to keep up with all threads, and sometimes I leave threads when they seem to get repetitive. I imagine you'll not care for my answer, though.
Daniel
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Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2016, 05:26:34 PM »
Balanced means that it has carbs AND fats AND protein, all in reasonable proportions. I.e. proportions recommended by most nutritionists not committed to one particular style of fad diet or another. As an example, a diet that prohibits or severely restricts any one of those three broad categories is not balanced.

So balanced isn't an objective description but totally subjective. "Reasonable proportions" and "proportions recommended by most nutritionists".

Only in diet and nutrition does a majority opinion define what "balanced" means.

BTW, there is always an alternative to eating white bread and other simple carbs (or even meat for that matter). It's called not eating them.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline PB67

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2016, 05:59:48 PM »


Balanced means that it has carbs AND fats AND protein, all in reasonable proportions. I.e. proportions recommended by most nutritionists not committed to one particular style of fad diet or another. As an example, a diet that prohibits or severely restricts any one of those three broad categories is not balanced.

So balanced isn't an objective description but totally subjective. "Reasonable proportions" and "proportions recommended by most nutritionists".

Only in diet and nutrition does a majority opinion define what "balanced" means.

BTW, there is always an alternative to eating white bread and other simple carbs (or even meat for that matter). It's called not eating them.

It's called a consensus. Not exactly unheard of.

Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2016, 06:20:08 PM »


Balanced means that it has carbs AND fats AND protein, all in reasonable proportions. I.e. proportions recommended by most nutritionists not committed to one particular style of fad diet or another. As an example, a diet that prohibits or severely restricts any one of those three broad categories is not balanced.

So balanced isn't an objective description but totally subjective. "Reasonable proportions" and "proportions recommended by most nutritionists".

Only in diet and nutrition does a majority opinion define what "balanced" means.

BTW, there is always an alternative to eating white bread and other simple carbs (or even meat for that matter). It's called not eating them.

It's called a consensus. Not exactly unheard of.

Technically majority opinion is not necessarily the same as consensus

And "balanced" is not defined by consensus or majority opinion (except in diet and nutrition).

It's become one of those feel good words that has lost it's original meaning and just means "we like it" (in diet and nutrition).

If a diet were 33% Fat; 33% Carb 33% protein, that could be considered balanced, but the consensus and the majority opinion is that's too much protein, unless it's a high calorie diet, since the optimal amount of protein is based on weight, not a percentage of calories.

If a diet were 20% fat 60% Carb 20% protein, that could meet the majority opinion about what's "balanced," but by any reasonable definition of balance, it's way out of balance.  Particularly considering that fats and protein are essential nutrients, but carbs are not.

Also,  while those proportions are within the dietary guidelines for macronutrient proportions, there is not consensus that it is "balanced".

But saying "balanced" is whatever the majority opinion or consensus among experts say it is, doesn't answer the question:

What proportions are considered balanced?  If you're able to look at a diet and say "That looks balanced" then you must have criteria, right? Or is "balanced" like pornography, can't define it, but know it when you see it?


and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2016, 07:06:40 PM »
I like the 20/20/60 but that's 60% fat.  That is very balanced for my lifestyle.  I have plenty of energy, need only eat two meals a day, never hungry and have excellent blood tests.  Got a little six pack, too.
"The home of the brave and the land of the free; the less you know, the better off you'll be"

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Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 07:29:31 PM »
I like the 20/20/60 but that's 60% fat.  That is very balanced for my lifestyle.  I have plenty of energy, need only eat two meals a day, never hungry and have excellent blood tests.  Got a little six pack, too.

I'm probably around 5/20/75. But my protein may be higher, at the expense of fat. Any more carbs and I start adding fat back.

I wouldn't consider that "balanced" nor would I consider "balance" a virtue.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline jt512

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2016, 10:27:26 PM »
Not sure where you get the "high-carb low-fat" assessment. The pie chart doesn't show that at all.

Because the diet contains almost no sources of concentrated protein, and the only significant source of fat is nuts/seeds, which can constitute as little as 10% of the diet, in which case the diet would be on the order of 80/10/10 carb/protein/fat.

Offline jt512

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2016, 12:47:54 AM »

I'm probably around 5/20/75. But my protein may be higher, at the expense of fat.

At the expense of your kidneys, anyway.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2016, 08:52:20 AM »
Balanced means that it has carbs AND fats AND protein, all in reasonable proportions. I.e. proportions recommended by most nutritionists not committed to one particular style of fad diet or another. As an example, a diet that prohibits or severely restricts any one of those three broad categories is not balanced.

So balanced isn't an objective description but totally subjective. "Reasonable proportions" and "proportions recommended by most nutritionists".

Only in diet and nutrition does a majority opinion define what "balanced" means.

BTW, there is always an alternative to eating white bread and other simple carbs (or even meat for that matter). It's called not eating them.

As PB67 already pointed out, it's called consensus, and it's one of the foundations of all science. And as I think I pointed out, I seldom eat simple carbs, other than a small amount of sugar. Most things are not harmful in moderation. I will go hungry rather than eat meat because I choose not to support the killing of animals, but I see no reason to go hungry when I'm at a restaurant that offers no complex carbs.

I will give you this however: I made a poor choice of words when I referred to "most nutritionists." I should have referred instead to the consensus among those nutritionists who base their conclusions upon evidence rather than a quasi-religious belief or commercial interest in one or another of the many fad diets extant.

And as I've said before, I have more confidence in the Mayo Clinic and other similarly scientific sources than in the guru for any one narrowly-defined diet.
Daniel
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Offline Plastiq

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2016, 01:32:19 PM »

I'm probably around 5/20/75. But my protein may be higher, at the expense of fat.

At the expense of your kidneys, anyway.

Seriously?

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2016, 01:39:00 PM »
No one is talking about a
Quote
guru for any one narrowly-defined diet.
or
Quote
quasi-religious belief or commercial interest in one or another of the many fad diets
other than you. 

The consensus has certainly changed in nutrition, take a look at the USDA 2016 guidelines. 
"The home of the brave and the land of the free; the less you know, the better off you'll be"

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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2016, 01:41:27 PM »

I'm probably around 5/20/75. But my protein may be higher, at the expense of fat.

At the expense of your kidneys, anyway.

Seriously?

I thought one would have to exceptionally increase one's protein intake from 20% to cause any 'expense' to one's kidneys.   
"The home of the brave and the land of the free; the less you know, the better off you'll be"

Warren Zevon

Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2016, 01:50:22 PM »

Not sure where you get the "high-carb low-fat" assessment. The pie chart doesn't show that at all.

Because the diet contains almost no sources of concentrated protein, and the only significant source of fat is nuts/seeds, which can constitute as little as 10% of the diet, in which case the diet would be on the order of 80/10/10 carb/protein/fat.

I think you are right. Not much fat at all.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

 

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