Author Topic: Penn Jillette Weight Loss  (Read 6331 times)

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Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2016, 09:12:32 PM »
We got some basic nutrition education when I got my Personal Trainer certification from the ACSM.

When discussing the need for excess protein when adding muscle, the following thought experiment stuck with me...

Suppose at some point in your life you literally doubled your muscle mass. Well, from birth to roughly 16 lbs that's exactly what you did. And it was likely done on mother's milk or similar substitute.

Interestingly, NOT very high in protein:

Mature human milk contains 3%--5% fat, 0.8%--0.9% protein, 6.9%--7.2% carbohydrate calculated as lactose, and 0.2% mineral constituents expressed as ash. Its energy content is 60--75 kcal/100 ml. Protein content is markedly higher and carbohydrate content lower in colostrum than in mature milk.

Not to put forth any particular opinion, just to point out that large amounts of protein are not required for muscle growth, which among adults is unlikely to exceed about 10 lbs per year with training.

Not exactly. First, muscle (and other lean tissue) are always breaking down, and you need a significant amount of protein to just maintain muscle mass. (especially during weight loss and calorie deficit) This accelerates with exercise.

The amount of protein needed to build muscle is above and beyond.
 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:28:34 PM by estockly »
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2016, 09:37:18 PM »
Not exactly. First, muscle (and other lean tissue) are always breaking down, and you need a significant amount of protein to just maintain muscle mass. (especially during weight loss and calorie deficit) This accelerates with exercise.

The amount of protein needed to build muscle is above and beyond.

Granted. My point, if there was one, was that you do not need a LOT more.
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Offline jt512

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2016, 09:40:54 PM »

Quote
J Ren Nutr. 2015 Jan;25(1):1-5.

High-protein diets and renal health. Marckmann P, Osther P, Pedersen AN, Jespersen B.

 High-protein diets (i.e., protein content of more than 25% of energy or more than 2 g/kg body weight per day) based on meat and dairy products are repeatedly promoted for weight reduction and better health, but the evidence supporting these notions is quite dubious. As described in the present review, there is a reason to be concerned about adverse effects of such diets, including glomerular hyperfiltration, hypertensive effects of a concomitant increase in dietary sodium, and an increased risk of nephrolithiasis. These diet-induced physiological consequences might lead to an increase in the prevalence of chronic kidney disease in the general population without preexisting kidney disease. Accordingly, we find medical reasons to refrain from promoting high-protein diets, in particular those based on meat and dairy products, until clear-cut evidence for the safety and for the superiority of such diets on human health has been provided.

Copyright © 2015 National Kidney Foundation, Inc. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. PMID: 25091135

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Am J Kidney Dis. 2004 Dec;44(6):950-62.

High-protein diets: potential effects on the kidney in renal health and disease.

Friedman AN.

High-protein (HP) weight-loss diets have existed in the United States for decades, although their popularity has recently surged as obesity has become more common. Despite their widespread use, valid concerns exist that HP diets may induce clinically important alterations in renal function and health. HP consumption has been found, under various conditions, to lead to glomerular hyperfiltration and hyperemia; acceleration of chronic kidney disease (CKD); increased proteinuria; diuresis, natriuresis, and kaliuresis with associated blood pressure changes; increased risk for nephrolithiasis; and various metabolic alterations. Unfortunately, a comprehensive understanding of the implications of HP diets is limited by the lack of a universally accepted definition for HP intake, a paucity of rigorous long-term human interventional studies that necessitate relying on short-term or fairly circumstantial evidence, and sparse data on the effects of HP consumption in obese individuals. In addition, matters are further complicated because the renal impact HP diets for limited periods is most likely different than that for more chronic consumption. Nevertheless, although there are no clear renal-related contraindications to HP diets in individuals with healthy kidney function, the theoretical risks should be reviewed carefully with the patient. In contrast, HP diets have the potential for significant harm in individuals with CKD and should be avoided if possible. Because CKD is often a silent disease, all individuals should undergo a screening serum creatinine measurement and urinary dipstick test for proteinuria before the initiation of such a diet.

So, there's no clear-cut benefit to excess protein consumption, safety has not been clearly demonstrated, and there are theoretical risks.  That's enough for me. 

No benefit and possible harm implies an infinite risk:benefit ratio.

BTW, I'm talking long-term.  As a temporary weight-loss strategy, if you find it useful and have no contraindications, then fine.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:45:48 PM by jt512 »

Offline estockly

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Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2016, 11:04:35 PM »
Watching now. no animal products no refined grains stupid-low sugar salt and oil. no portion control
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Offline estockly

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Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2016, 11:06:50 PM »
Watching now. no animal products no refined grains stupid-low sugar salt and oil. no portion control

His new book. "Presto: How I Made 100 Pound Disappear"
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Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2016, 12:24:07 AM »
Watching now. no animal products no refined grains stupid-low sugar salt and oil. no portion control

So I just mixed up a dish of Cayenne pepper, cocoa powder and blue berries. Not great. Not bad, but not great. Much smaller portion than Penn had.
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Offline Simon Jester

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2016, 01:04:36 AM »
Watching now. no animal products no refined grains stupid-low sugar salt and oil. no portion control

So I just mixed up a dish of Cayenne pepper, cocoa powder and blue berries. Not great. Not bad, but not great. Much smaller portion than Penn had.

Perhaps its better with the blackberries?

You gotta admit it was funny when Oz took a big bite of the Cayenne pepper started crying and almost puked.  I have to wonder if Penn did that on purpose or if Oz overplayed it.

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Offline stonesean

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2016, 09:43:07 AM »
If Penn is involved and you are wondering if there is a "fix", don't wonder.

It's a fix.  (I say that as a Penn fan, btw.)

Dr. Oz knows what happens when you eat cayenne pepper.
Well.  There it is.

Online Harry Black

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2016, 10:35:48 AM »
So...was this a bait and switch for Penn to engage americas premier woo pedlar or did he actually just go on the show amicably to sell his book?
Because latter leaves my already diminishing respect for him, further diminished.

Offline stonesean

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2016, 10:41:10 AM »
So...was this a bait and switch for Penn to engage americas premier woo pedlar or did he actually just go on the show amicably to sell his book?
Because latter leaves my already diminishing respect for him, further diminished.

As a weekly listener to Penn's podcast, I can tell you, it's to sell his book.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 10:54:33 AM by stonesean »
Well.  There it is.

Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2016, 10:53:39 AM »
They didn't engage or disagree that much. Penn "corrected" Oz on one fact. They also didn't offer much in the way of information (nutrition, science, medicine or even the diet). But we learned Penn can juggle better than Oz
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Offline Simon Jester

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2016, 02:18:54 PM »
So...was this a bait and switch for Penn to engage americas premier woo pedlar or did he actually just go on the show amicably to sell his book?
Because latter leaves my already diminishing respect for him, further diminished.

He went on a well known Woo TV show with millions of viewers just to sell his book?  Fantastic!

My respect and awe just doubled. I hope he sells a million copies of his book to all the believers in woo which mite just bring them one step closer to skepticism. Its like an Atheist being invited to a sell his book in the middle of a church service.  His Facebook page linking the video says

Quote
I'm on Dr. Oz today. I don't agree with everything he's ever said, but I agree with what I said. At least for now.

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Offline stonesean

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2016, 02:24:05 PM »
So...was this a bait and switch for Penn to engage americas premier woo pedlar or did he actually just go on the show amicably to sell his book?
Because latter leaves my already diminishing respect for him, further diminished.

He went on a well known Woo TV show with millions of viewers just to sell his book?  Fantastic!

My respect and awe just doubled. I hope he sells a million copies of his book to all the believers in woo which mite just bring them one step closer to skepticism. Its like an Atheist being invited to a sell his book in the middle of a church service.  His Facebook page linking the video says

Quote
I'm on Dr. Oz today. I don't agree with everything he's ever said, but I agree with what I said. At least for now.

Some folks were very critical of Penn's decision to appear many times on Glenn Beck's Fox show back when that was a thing.

Penn's response was essentially: "How many times is Glenn Beck's audience going to hear someone say 'There's no such thing as God'? Isn't it good for his audience to hear someone say that?"

It's a pretty good response.
Well.  There it is.

Online Harry Black

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2016, 02:36:14 PM »
It is a pretty good response. And it would apply here if he challenged Oz on anything he said.
The appearance will drastically increase the sales of his book and thats a totally legit reason to go on. I just respect him less for it.
When it comes to someone like Oz, my view is that if you arent challenging him, you are tacitly endorsing him and bringing him your audience, which makes him money, which keeps him selling woo and damaging peoples health.

Offline estockly

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Re: Penn Jillette Weight Loss
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2016, 12:15:40 PM »
What did Oz say that should have been challenged?
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"