Author Topic: Episode #592  (Read 3335 times)

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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2016, 08:05:18 AM »
Steve specifically said he reckons they will end up talking about it when there is actually an effect on science.
He isnt even actually in the white house yet.

Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2016, 08:17:34 AM »
Just started listening but it's the typical; milquetoast response to the election I expected. 

The reaction to the election has been huge in the science community and this is supposed to be a scientific/sceptic broadcast; they wait till the damage becomes more apparent.  The anti-science rhetoric has been so your face from Trumps campaign, Myron Ebell, EPA, Forrest Lucas, Interior (or Sarah Palin), Ben Carson, Health, Hamm, Energy.... Jesus H Christ, how much anti science can they look away from.

The whole campaign turned on (ask from misogyny and racism) climate change denial, anti-vaccination and environmental destruction for corporate profit.  Surely a target for scientific debate.

What do I know, anyway?  Why should I care, living on a beautiful island in the South Pacific with the leaders of our Governnment openly atheistic for the last two decades.

I'd like to second Lonley Moa's thoughts on this. I was stunned by how quickly Steve and the rogues glossed over the election. I totally understand that this is an apolitical show, and that we are all sick of talking about politics. This election will likely have unprecedented consequences for scientific research and education. It also has major implications for the role of facts and conspiracy theories in public discourse, empiricism in public policy, freedom of expression, libel laws, and plenty of other topics that are dear to skeptics' hearts.

Even if the most odious policies advocated by the president elect are never implemented, America has suffered a severe trauma. The misogyny, racism, xenophobia  and Islamaphobia that have seemingly been validated by the election results are a terrible blow to the American values of inclusion and diversity. I agree that we should accpet the election results and help this president be the best he can be, but we also need to acknowledge the fear and pain being felt by many of our most vulnerable citizens. I find it really difficult to listen to riffs about juvenile science fiction topics at a time like this. Much love to Steve and the rogues-- I appreciate your work on the show so much-- but I had to vent a little.

Yes, I concur. This election result is clearly a complete disaster for the scientific and skeptical community, its consequences will be felt around the globe, and the SGU has never shied away from discussing politics before when it has had those kinds of implications. Extremely disappointing to see you do so now.

This is bull.

They said very clearly that when politics intersects with science and skepticism, they talk about it, and they said that they will talk about it when such subjects come up, because it is inevitable that they will come up.

What they're not talking about is the election itself, and in my opinion that is a Good Thing.

Everybody's entitled to their own opinion of course, but you really don't think that (to quote lonely moa again)

The whole campaign turned on (ask from misogyny and racism) climate change denial, anti-vaccination and environmental destruction for corporate profit.

is worthy of discussion regardless of what will actually happen? I mean, it's not like the SGU shies away from speculating about future events when talking about any other topic, but you don't even have to go there. What does the popularity and political success of someone with these kinds of extremely anti-intellectual viewpoints say about the success or failure of our movement, and about the attitudes of the American public? And if it doesn't mean anything, I'd like to have heard that explained as well, because it certainly feels like it does.
Also, regardless of how you feel about them, Trump made some seriously unrealistic campaign promises that they could have shed a critical light on.

As it is, there wasn't even the explicit 3 second recognition that this is likely to be a very bad thing for science and skepticism. Instead we get "we now support president Trump, because it's an American tradition!". Oh please. Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but that actually gave me a slightly nauseated feeling.

For the record, still love the show in all other aspects, just not this bit.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2016, 08:35:00 AM »
Apparently Steve and the rogues felt that they will be a more effective voice for science and skepticism if they do not take a stand against the baboon itself for its anti-science (and racist, misogynist) rantings now. Personally, I think they should have acknowledged that this election was a disaster for science. But they seem to have felt that it's better to wait and see what he actually does. They likely want to avoid being accused later of partisan politics when they criticize the anti-science policies of the next administration. Of course, they will be, anyway, so IMO they ought to just say what they feel now.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2016, 09:27:26 AM »
We pretty much know how they feel though because they have spoken about Trump in the past.
They covered the only relevant fact we know: Trump won the election.
Everything else is speculation and not really science related.

Online lubbarin

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2016, 09:54:07 AM »
"Why doesn't the president just call it Islamic terrorism?"
"Why doesn't the SGU just call the election a big anti-science clusterf..?"

Many of us come here triggered by political garbage from elsewhere on the web or in rl to vent and vindicate how garbagey the garbage is.
Then we trigger each other with our anger and it's generalization, synecdoche, and 'you're a hypocrite' all the way down to the bottom, cause that's how we roll, I guess.

I don't blame the SGU peeps in the least bit for wanting that podcast to actually rise a bit higher than political discourse.
Their audience is either rationalist, or people they hope to show the clarity and force of rationalism-- it wouldn't do, or help, for them to make appeals outside of breaking down bad claims or bad science to make their case.

If you talk politics in the way in which we've all become accustomed (and it gets even worse outside the forum) then not only are you not persuasive at politics, you stop being persuasive at everything else.

Their path is to be as objective as possible, and look at specific, solid claims and actions. The hope is for people to be more open to it.
And if they can get some people on the path to, "oh, okay, this climate change thing is actually a lot less controversial than my Facebook tells me", or GMO or whatever, then people will make more rational decisions from there.
**with the added bonus that they may start being skeptical of bogus news sites'**

Unless those listeners prioritize other things over climate change or other science issues, in which case their grousing wouldn't matter anyway.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 11:13:21 AM by lubbarin »
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Online lonely moa

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2016, 12:27:15 PM »
Well, at least actual scientists have something to say about the election of Mr Trump and its likely influence on science.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/richard-dawkins-and-other-prominent-scientists-react-to-trump-rsquo-s-win/
“You get old and you realize there are no answers, just stories.”

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2016, 01:13:51 PM »
"Actual scientists"

-Dawkins in the headline
HIISSSSSSSS

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2016, 01:35:31 PM »
I mean...he isnt a working scientist but he is an actual scientist.
So is Steve though. And Cara.

Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2016, 03:05:11 PM »
Pedantry:
Neither Steve nor Cara is a scientist. Steve is a physician and a professor at a medical school. There is a big difference between research and clinical medicine. Cara started training to become a scientist, but opted instead to pursue science communication.

This is not a criticism: the career paths of Steve and Cara provided both of them with outstanding general science knowledge, and they have become two of the world's best science communicators.

Online lonely moa

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2016, 03:22:26 PM »
"Actual scientists"

-Dawkins in the headline

Get real, dude. 
“You get old and you realize there are no answers, just stories.”

Garrison Keillor

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2016, 03:23:45 PM »
Pedantry:
Neither Steve nor Cara is a scientist. Steve is a physician and a professor at a medical school. There is a big difference between research and clinical medicine. Cara started training to become a scientist, but opted instead to pursue science communication.

This is not a criticism: the career paths of Steve and Cara provided both of them with outstanding general science knowledge, and they have become two of the world's best science communicators.
Which is also what Dawkins has been for the last...thirty years?
HIISSSSSSSS

Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2016, 08:57:13 PM »
I loved the geeky Star Trek bit. Nerds  ;)  ;D

Rebecca always used to act like she was forced to do these pieces. Cara is down to get geeky for the show.  8)

I for one am glad the rogues didn't have too much on the election. We have heard just about everything there is to say about the subject.
Once he is President and impacting science, then it will be time for SGU to talk about it. All the rest is just speculation

Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2016, 11:42:55 PM »
I loved the geeky Star Trek bit. Nerds  ;)  ;D


I thought it was hokey...*almost* made me want to subscribe just to hear it again not.
Amend and resubmit.

Online lonely moa

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2016, 12:30:48 AM »

I for one am glad the rogues didn't have too much on the election. We have heard just about everything there is to say about the subject.
Once he is President and impacting science, then it will be time for SGU to talk about it. All the rest is just speculation

Right, wait till you hit yourself with the hammer and then pull your hand away.
“You get old and you realize there are no answers, just stories.”

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Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #592
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2016, 12:39:37 AM »
I loved the geeky Star Trek bit. Nerds  ;)  ;D


I thought it was hokey...*almost* made me want to subscribe just to hear it again not.

Hokey is why it was funny. It was as hokey as hell. But I am geeky enough myself that I applaud them doing it. Sci-Fi geeks comfortable enough with their geekdom that they will be that deliberately awkward for the sake of the show. The more they can make the ads fun, the less chance people will want to skip through them.

Now if they think they were good and decided to do that as a regular bit, then that would be too much  ;) But that geeky once every few years is just fine.  8)

 

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