Author Topic: I'm a woman and you're all scientists  (Read 6613 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Johnny Slick

  • "Goddammit, Slick."
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11990
  • Fake Ass Skeptic
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2016, 12:56:21 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Online Morvis13

  • Big Ol' Goober
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *
  • Posts: 22058
  • Natural Source of Paranoia
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2016, 01:54:25 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.

wait you're hand-wringing peoples genitalia now?
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Morvis' Law: Anything that does go wrong is my fault.

Offline Drunken Idaho

  • Natural Blonde
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9330
  • Comrade Questions
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2016, 03:01:44 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.

wait you're hand-wringing peoples genitalia now?

Where is the queue?
Strange women lying in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government.

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9857
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2016, 03:15:09 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.

wait you're hand-wringing peoples genitalia now?

Where is the queue?
Liked for not using the word 'line'.

Offline Drunken Idaho

  • Natural Blonde
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9330
  • Comrade Questions
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2016, 03:50:35 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.

wait you're hand-wringing peoples genitalia now?

Where is the queue?
Liked for not using the word 'line'.

I've been making an effort to use it more, it's a great word.
Strange women lying in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government.

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9857
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2016, 04:10:01 PM »
"I don't like the fact that language evolves, therefore people are dumb!"

Not sure who you're supposed to be quoting there...

It's the issue with attacking gender roles as out dated social constructs and lifting up gender identity as valid and distinct from sex.  Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.
It was more directed at the "WAH LITERALLY MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LITERALLY NOW WAAAH" thing that immediately preceded my post, but it kind of does apply to the whinging and hand-wringing about other peoples' genitalia as well.

wait you're hand-wringing peoples genitalia now?

Where is the queue?
Liked for not using the word 'line'.

I've been making an effort to use it more, it's a great word.
Suits you;-)

Offline GodSlayer

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12620
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2016, 11:37:37 AM »
Eventually the term "gender" either represents something or it doesn't.

yep. and never mind a myriad of possible competing definitions as alluded to earlier, because not even a _second_ definition has been dared, even by someone purely playing Devil's advocate for the apparently wrongheaded.

I feel like I should've added a poll. because if it just so happens that skeptics are all traditionalists who just keep hush around alt/progressive communities, that would make sense. but I was under the impression a lot of people actually agreed with the whole gender=/=sex claim (claim is the only word I can use at this time)
Quote from: Nietzsche
the inequality of rights is essential to the existence of any rights at all.--A right is a privilege.
Quote from: Ligotti
One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Online daniel1948

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4351
  • Cat Lovers Against the Bomb
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2016, 12:21:58 PM »
So, GodSlayer, do you have a definition of the word "woman"? What does the word mean when you use it?
Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline GodSlayer

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12620
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2016, 02:11:24 PM »
So, GodSlayer, do you have a definition of the word "woman"? What does the word mean when you use it?

for me it's just the sex thing. hence 'transwomen' trying to mitigate their primary and secondary sex characteristics. if being a woman, like being an american, was an identity you could have despite testicles and beards, they could save themselves a lot of pain and money.

it seems unfortunate I'm basically going to have to "troll" some believers' forum to hear the other side of the story.
Quote from: Nietzsche
the inequality of rights is essential to the existence of any rights at all.--A right is a privilege.
Quote from: Ligotti
One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1335
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2016, 03:49:29 PM »
for me it's just the sex thing.
Which sex thing? The genitalia? What about ambiguous or dual genitalia? The chromosomes? What about people who aren't XX or XY? The hormones? What about people whose hormonal balance doesn't fall near either mode of the population distribution? Secondary sex characteristics? What about women with beards and men with soft voices and breast tissue? The gametes? What about people who are sterile?

Biologically, physiologically, whatever, "just the sex thing" still isn't clear and unambiguous. If by "woman" you mean "biologically female", you still need to define what that means when you say it.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline God Bomb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 216
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2016, 09:29:01 PM »
my gender is constantly in flux.  This morning I was a woman, but at break time the women's toilet was busy so I became a man and used the men's room.
Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn.

Offline GodSlayer

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12620
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2016, 06:35:33 AM »
my gender is constantly in flux.  This morning I was a woman, but at break time the women's toilet was busy so I became a man and used the men's room.

why would toilets or skirts or dating or any other external factor change your gender?
Quote from: Nietzsche
the inequality of rights is essential to the existence of any rights at all.--A right is a privilege.
Quote from: Ligotti
One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Offline GodSlayer

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12620
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2016, 06:37:10 AM »
Biologically, physiologically, whatever, "just the sex thing" still isn't clear and unambiguous. If by "woman" you mean "biologically female", you still need to define what that means when you say it.

whatever conundrum it is, it's in there that the answer is found, in my view.
I have heard that the extreme feminist left or whatever you'd call them have an alternative perspective, but I've yet to hear an alternative hypothesis.
Quote from: Nietzsche
the inequality of rights is essential to the existence of any rights at all.--A right is a privilege.
Quote from: Ligotti
One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Offline Johnny Slick

  • "Goddammit, Slick."
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11990
  • Fake Ass Skeptic
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2016, 08:02:47 AM »
3edgy5me
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Drunken Idaho

  • Natural Blonde
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9330
  • Comrade Questions
Re: I'm a woman and you're all scientists
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2016, 07:32:24 PM »
for me it's just the sex thing.
Which sex thing? The genitalia? What about ambiguous or dual genitalia? The chromosomes? What about people who aren't XX or XY? The hormones? What about people whose hormonal balance doesn't fall near either mode of the population distribution? Secondary sex characteristics? What about women with beards and men with soft voices and breast tissue? The gametes? What about people who are sterile?

Biologically, physiologically, whatever, "just the sex thing" still isn't clear and unambiguous. If by "woman" you mean "biologically female", you still need to define what that means when you say it.

Some valid definitions of these (especially where medicine is concerned) conform to chromosome/genitalia relationships. Granting that there are very rare exceptions, the vast majority of TG folks fit (from the perspective of a chemically/physiologically-concerned scientist) into the sex that is described by their chromosomes, genitalia, etc..

Some people want to be stereotyped as the sex opposite from that which is described by their chromosomes, and that's totally fine, and we should all respect their feelings.

We should all treat people however they wish to be treated, and that can coexist just fine with recognizing the accuracy and utility of chromosomal etc.- based sex typing.
Strange women lying in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government.

 

personate-rain