Author Topic: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"  (Read 495 times)

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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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"Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« on: December 26, 2016, 11:52:19 AM »
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Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol

Surprise move has angered many in the country’s Christian community who rely on the business

Iraq’s parliament has passed a law forbidding the import, production or selling of alcoholic beverages in a surprise move that angered many in the country’s Christian community who rely on the business.

The law, passed late on Saturday night, imposes a fine of up to 25m Iraqi dinars (£17,000) for anyone violating the ban. But it’s unclear how strictly the law would be enforced, and it could be struck down by the supreme court.

Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol, but it has always been available in Iraq’s larger cities, mainly from shops run by Christians. Those shops are currently closed because of the Shia holy month of Muharram.

Iraq’s parliament is dominated by Shia Islamist parties. The assembly announced the ban on its website but did not say how many lawmakers voted for or against it.

Christian lawmaker Joseph Slaiwa said the “unjust” ban was slipped into a draft law regulating the income of municipal authorities without lawmakers being notified. The original article only called for imposing taxes on liquor stores and restaurants serving liquor, he said.

Iraq looks more and more like a client state to Iran.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 03:49:59 AM »
Hopefully this will spur a culture of speakeasies and swing dancing.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2016, 04:00:31 AM »
Hopefully this will spur a culture of speakeasies and swing dancing.
It hasnt in other middle eastern countries. Prohibition of alcohol seems mostly to have worked there (you can usually get a drink in a hotel of course and theres the odd beer baron selling cans in back alleys, which people take home).
Obviously Im in no way saying its a good idea or that these would be nice places to live.

The US prohibition story does seem to be a case of American exceptionalism.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2016, 04:31:12 AM »
It's more of a cultural thing. The alcohol ban in, say, Saudi Arabia works because a majority of the population believe that indulgence in alcohol is immoral. It didn't work in America because there was no strongly-supported idea of immorality. The temperance movement was never much more than a fringe.

Also, Saudi Arabia has a tendency to publicly behead people who break their religious laws, so there's that too.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2016, 05:17:11 AM »
It's more of a cultural thing. The alcohol ban in, say, Saudi Arabia works because a majority of the population believe that indulgence in alcohol is immoral. It didn't work in America because there was no strongly-supported idea of immorality. The temperance movement was never much more than a fringe.

Also, Saudi Arabia has a tendency to publicly behead people who break their religious laws, so there's that too.
Yep.
Its not just Saudi and other places are more tolerant but I agree.
Its just always what I think of when people state as an objective fact "prohibition doesnt work!"
I think prohibition is bad and should not be implenented but it doesnt always fail as spectacularly as in that one example.

Online Shibboleth

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2016, 12:17:59 PM »
Even is Saudi Arabia the ban of Alcohol works about as well as the war on drugs in America.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34516143

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"Booze is a big thing on the compounds - they really are like little holiday camps. There are a couple that manage to smuggle in the real stuff and some of the bigger ones have bars that the Saudis turn a blind eye to.
"The Saudis have turned a blind eye to what goes on within the compounds for a very long time.
"There is quite a drinking culture with the Saudis themselves. Most of the guys that I socialise with have stocks of Jack Daniels and other booze, as well as buying stuff that some of the expats brew."
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2016, 12:24:58 PM »
Black market supplier of alcohol to Iraq...  There's a business opportunity there, and what are they going to do, have you extradited to their country if you're caught?  Get to it enterprising Middle Easterners!
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2016, 01:14:12 PM »
Even is Saudi Arabia the ban of Alcohol works about as well as the war on drugs in America.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34516143

Quote
"Booze is a big thing on the compounds - they really are like little holiday camps. There are a couple that manage to smuggle in the real stuff and some of the bigger ones have bars that the Saudis turn a blind eye to.
"The Saudis have turned a blind eye to what goes on within the compounds for a very long time.
"There is quite a drinking culture with the Saudis themselves. Most of the guys that I socialise with have stocks of Jack Daniels and other booze, as well as buying stuff that some of the expats brew."
And again- Theres more countries with such laws than just Saudi.
There is always a way to get a drink.
My point is that it hasnt created the underground business in many countries I have been to, that one might expect.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 04:44:47 PM »
Regardless, it is clear and well-evidenced that prohibition encourages a black market.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 04:52:10 PM »
Regardless, it is clear and well-evidenced that prohibition encourages a black market.
I did not deny that at all.
My point was- It does not always look like what happened in the US.
There are degrees of black market. We prohibit purchasing antibiotics without prescription and there is a black market for that. But its about whether or not we deem a particular resupt acceptable or not.
That calculation will change, item by item and population by population.
Prohibiting guns works well in many places for example. Perhaps it would not work so well in others.

My experience of drinking in Dubai is that you just go to a hotel and get shitfaced.
My experience in parts of Egypt (outside Cairo) is that it was nowhere near worth the effort and risk for the couple of cans that I was promised.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2016, 05:06:23 PM »
Regardless, it is clear and well-evidenced that prohibition encourages a black market.
I did not deny that at all.
My point was- It does not always look like what happened in the US.
There are degrees of black market. We prohibit purchasing antibiotics without prescription and there is a black market for that. But its about whether or not we deem a particular resupt acceptable or not.
That calculation will change, item by item and population by population.
Prohibiting guns works well in many places for example. Perhaps it would not work so well in others.

My experience of drinking in Dubai is that you just go to a hotel and get shitfaced.
My experience in parts of Egypt (outside Cairo) is that it was nowhere near worth the effort and risk for the couple of cans that I was promised.

Oh, obviously. But is the greater difficulty in Egypt the result of more stringent top-down enforcement, or the result of a larger buy-in by the population?

Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 05:21:59 PM »
I have no idea. Certainly they have more pressure to express piety to their neighbours.
In any case, I certainly dont support the prohibition of recreational substances.
I think such prohibition in a free society certainly doesnt work.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2016, 08:06:11 AM »
I have no idea. Certainly they have more pressure to express piety to their neighbours.
In any case, I certainly dont support the prohibition of recreational substances.
I think such prohibition in a free society certainly doesnt work.

I think lashing out against non-Muslims was part of this law too.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 08:16:10 AM by Quetzalcoatl »
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: "Iraq's parliament passes law banning alcohol"
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2016, 08:15:11 AM »
I have no idea. Certainly they have more pressure to express piety to their neighbours.
In any case, I certainly dont support the prohibition of recreational substances.
I think such prohibition in a free society certainly doesnt work.
[/quote

I think lashing out against non-Muslims was part of this law too.
That seems to have been the case in my opinion.

 

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