Author Topic: Episode #600  (Read 2117 times)

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Online The Latinist

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 07:27:37 PM »
Or Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow

They were talking about Carrie Fisher's influence on their childhood in the 1970's, when there were very few female role models in Sci-Fi.  Sigourney Weaver's Ellen Ripley in 1979 is relevant to the discussion and a perhaps surprising omission from the discussion, but a character from a movie released nearly 40 years later is not.

Latinist, we're expanding the discussion from the seeds on the show - as is normal for this forum and conversations in general. She is a modern example - all too rare - of a strong female character in SF and action genres.

Brillig, I know that conversations change and expand; but SoF made his comment in a context, and in that context it makes no sense. Tassie Dave pointed out that they were looking for examples of strong female sci-fi characters from their childhood, and pointed out that they missed Ellen Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) from just two years later.  Do you really think that "Or Emily Blunt" is a cogent response to that?  I don't.  There's nothing wrong with shifting the topic to modern sci-fi heroines—which is what you subsequently did—but SoF just made a non-sequitur that missed Tassie Dave's point entirely.
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Offline Dan I

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2017, 08:59:53 AM »
Funnily, I didn't think of Ripley either. Now I'm too young for Ripley to have been in my childhood. But thinking on it, I'm not sure I would have thought of Ripley as a "sci-fi" heroine. Alien was basically a horror movie and Aliens was an action movie. Thinking on it, I'm not sure I ever considered her a "sci-fi" heroine.

Which now has me spinning off into thoughts of "Where is the line between sci-fi..." and other genres. Like when is a movie a "Science Fiction" movie vs a "Horror Movie set in Space."

An ACTION heroine, especially after Aliens, absolutely. But the Ripley from Alien seemed a lot more similar to your "last girl standing" Horror heroine.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2017, 09:49:39 AM »
Funnily, I didn't think of Ripley either. Now I'm too young for Ripley to have been in my childhood. But thinking on it, I'm not sure I would have thought of Ripley as a "sci-fi" heroine. Alien was basically a horror movie and Aliens was an action movie. Thinking on it, I'm not sure I ever considered her a "sci-fi" heroine.

Which now has me spinning off into thoughts of "Where is the line between sci-fi..." and other genres. Like when is a movie a "Science Fiction" movie vs a "Horror Movie set in Space."

An ACTION heroine, especially after Aliens, absolutely. But the Ripley from Alien seemed a lot more similar to your "last girl standing" Horror heroine.

Yeah, her action came more in later movies. Does her character arc follow the traditional horror movie heroine theme, though? IIRC she didn't survive because she was without sin, and the others didn't die because they were sinful.

"...set in space."

When you start to ask if a movie is in a particular genre based on the setting alone it gets tangled pretty fast. I tend to thing of SF and F tales (in any medium) as having an extra main character: the setting. In most other kinds of stories the setting is a background character.

Since I was coming up empty on other female action heroes from the 70s and 80s I asked Google for help. Wikipedia has an interesting (and admittedly limited) list that includes:
  • Coffy from Coffy (1973)
  • Yuki Kashima from Lady Snowblood (1973) and Lady Snowblood 2: Love Song of Vengeance (1974)
  • Foxy Brown from Foxy Brown (1974)
  • Princess Leia Organa from the original Star Wars series (1977–1983)
  • Ellen Ripley from the Alien series (1979-1997)
  • Sarah Connor from the Terminator series (1984–2015)

I presume Coffy is considered blacksploitation like Foxy Brown, and that Lady Snowblood didn't see wide distribution in North America? Slim pickings at the time. Leia, Ripley, and Conner were the full list for my childhood, I think.

They list two older movies as well:
  • Pauline Hargraves from The Perils of Pauline movie serial (1933)
  • Torchy Blane from the Torchy Blane series (1937–1939)

Have any of you seen either?
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Offline Dan I

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 09:54:00 AM »

  • Sarah Connor from the Terminator series (1984–2015)
Connor raises the same issue as Ripley. In the original Terminator she is MUCH more of a traditional damsel in distress with signs of underlying action hero status.

Terminator 2 she's obviously a full blown action hero. In fact the contrast between her in T1 vs T2 is one of the big things ABOUT T2 that makes it great. You see this mousy, fairly standard female character turned into an utter and complete badass.

But "action hero" Sarah Connor doesn't really show up until 1991.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:09:59 AM by Dan I »

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 10:56:36 AM »

  • Sarah Connor from the Terminator series (1984–2015)
Connor raises the same issue as Ripley. In the original Terminator she is MUCH more of a traditional damsel in distress with signs of underlying action hero status.

Terminator 2 she's obviously a full blown action hero. In fact the contrast between her in T1 vs T2 is one of the big things ABOUT T2 that makes it great. You see this mousy, fairly standard female character turned into an utter and complete badass.

But "action hero" Sarah Connor doesn't really show up until 1991.

(There was an extra quote up there.)

Fair points. I guess I saw them as kicking ass in the first place as well, despite the horror-movie structure. I don't watch a lot of horror, btw, so I'm not too sure how these two rate compared to other "heroines" in distress. It seems to me that both of these women are different because they defeat their monsters on their own, unlike in a movie like Halloween, where the woman is saved by someone else.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 10:58:59 AM »
Funnily, I didn't think of Ripley either. Now I'm too young for Ripley to have been in my childhood. But thinking on it, I'm not sure I would have thought of Ripley as a "sci-fi" heroine. Alien was basically a horror movie and Aliens was an action movie. Thinking on it, I'm not sure I ever considered her a "sci-fi" heroine.

Which now has me spinning off into thoughts of "Where is the line between sci-fi..." and other genres. Like when is a movie a "Science Fiction" movie vs a "Horror Movie set in Space."

An ACTION heroine, especially after Aliens, absolutely. But the Ripley from Alien seemed a lot more similar to your "last girl standing" Horror heroine.
I think the distinction your making is, unnecessary.  Any fictional media can be any combination of genre(mostly)  Alien was sci-fi and horror even if the plot was really just a horror movie, it was more sci-fi than Star Wars which was really just fantasy in space at any-rate.  The alien franchise is clearly sci-fi with installments in various other genres.  I think Ripley is the clearest example of a sci-fi heroine.  Leia in the first Star Wars film was as much a damsel in distress as she was a heroine, "Save me Obi Wan!"  Ripley was clearly a women of action, even if she was in a horror movie.

There's probably an interesting TV show in Sarah Connor's life between 1984 and 1991.  Hanging out on the fringes of society, occasionally running drugs or escaping ATF raids on the compound.  With any luck, it would last like 10 years.

Offline RMoore

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 05:40:17 PM »
Regarding motivated reasoning, the question of how to avoid falling into the trap ourselves is inevitable. My take is that we can avoid it by asking the classic skeptical question, "What would it take to change your mind" -- only, directing it at ourselves. Once we have identified that standard, if someone is presenting evidence that contradicts our own understanding, we just have to decide if this evidence meets that standard. (Of course, if it does, we also need to verify that the evidence isn't fake.)

I suppose "motivational" reasoning (Steve's verbal slip at the beginning of the segment) would be the argument one uses when rationalizing the fact that one lives in a van down by the river.

Offline RMoore

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 05:44:28 PM »
Unless I miscounted, Saturday March 31, 2018 will be the date that episode 665 airs. So maybe produce an extra episode to air on Sunday, April Fool's Day, as #666, killing two birds with one stone?

Offline Morvis13

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2017, 08:59:16 PM »
Nightmare fuel for George:

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Morvis' Law: Anything that does go wrong is my fault.

Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2017, 09:13:56 PM »
It's Zoidberg.

or a cuttlefish.  ;)

Online werecow

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2017, 10:01:33 PM »
Happy 600th episode! And happy 500th to George!

Regarding the 2 hour interview with the SGU members that George is referring to: Was that recorded and put online somewhere? Is it an episode of Geologic, or was it an SGU live show?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:21:44 PM by werecow »
Mooohn!

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 01:39:55 AM »
In a remarkable coincidence, just as Steve mentioned Howard Florey, I was driving into the suburb of Canberra named after him - Florey - to visit my parents.

It's remarkable because I just remarked on it.

Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 07:55:05 AM »
In a remarkable coincidence, just as Steve mentioned Howard Florey, I was driving into the suburb of Canberra named after him - Florey - to visit my parents.

It's remarkable because I just remarked on it.
It's my anecdotal experience that Baader-Meinhof occurs more frequently than Deja Vu.

Online Sawyer

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 06:12:45 PM »
Started a Science or Fiction stats sheet so no one is stuck tallying at the end of the year.  Anyone with the link is free to edit so I hope if I start lagging behind someone else can pick up the slack.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IVvA030ZQmU8R7LhzRXmhBWA2AYxrfVpsbkQSIXY4dI/edit?usp=sharing



In the process of setting up the sheet before listening to the podcast, I had inadvertently predicted a sweep in week one.  And I got science or fiction correct.  So ... psychic win of the year for me?

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #600
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 07:07:51 PM »
Started a Science or Fiction stats sheet so no one is stuck tallying at the end of the year.  Anyone with the link is free to edit so I hope if I start lagging behind someone else can pick up the slack.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IVvA030ZQmU8R7LhzRXmhBWA2AYxrfVpsbkQSIXY4dI/edit?usp=sharing



In the process of setting up the sheet before listening to the podcast, I had inadvertently predicted a sweep in week one.  And I got science or fiction correct.  So ... psychic win of the year for me?

Careful not to peak too early!
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't