Author Topic: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?  (Read 1094 times)

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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2017, 08:42:51 AM »
Do atheists have some kind of detached position of intelletual elitism that allows them to see thorugh religion to people's true nature, or are they so disconnected from the human experience of religion that they don't understand the individual psychology of a martyr?

I'm not sure, but I'm glad we've narrowed it down to two possibilities.
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Offline drwfishesman

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2017, 10:12:58 AM »
No...the answer to the original subject is no.

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2017, 01:32:02 PM »
I think the answer is a qualified "yes".

The main issue that I see is that atheist Islamophobia is less hypocritical than religious Islamophobia.  When you point out to a Christian that we don't hold them responsible for what WPC does, for example, I think that argument gets some traction.  Atheism permits the dehumanization and othering of Muslims much more because of the absence of sympathy for religious belief and the absence of appreciation for nuance and detail in how average people typically practice their religion.

So in that sense atheism lends itself to be a foundation for a much more unhinged criticism of Islam.

The one giant caveat to this is that I'm skeptical that atheism is all that influential in how society at large thinks about these issues.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2017, 05:47:37 PM »
Yeah, I have a hard time agreeing with his points. Atheists aren't really all that influential in the US. None of Congress AFAIK, no prwsidents, maybe a couple of State legislatures? Harris and Dawkins are globally renowned divkhead, but I don't think they have near the audience that Hannity or Limbaugh does. Further, I'm a but young to tell, but he perception of Islam wasn't exactly rosy before 9/11, and hasn't gotten better in the last 16 years.

At home we can discern the church down the street from the Jim Baker ministry. There's a language and culture barrier that keeps Christian-centric nations like the US from seeing the shades of Islam, and also one that dismisses the horrific shit that Christians in Africa or South America are doing today.

Atheists are responsible for allowing xenophobia to fester in our spaces, though.
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Online Harry Black

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2017, 05:53:46 PM »
Fwiw, most people I knew didnt have a clue what islam was  until after 911.
They just vaguely knew that foreigners were weird with women.
But yeah. The only people Harris and Dawkins really seem to influence to a vocal extent outside this community are my younger fb friends who like to say controversial shit about religion and weed and feminism.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2017, 06:13:36 PM »
Fwiw, most people I knew didnt have a clue what islam was  until after 911.
They just vaguely knew that foreigners were weird with women.
But yeah. The only people Harris and Dawkins really seem to influence to a vocal extent outside this community are my younger fb friends who like to say controversial shit about religion and weed and feminism.
I remember not seeing very positive portrayals of the Middle East in movies from the 80s, Iran and Iraq were military enemies. Lots of anti-Islam from my evangelical missionary churches.
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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2017, 06:17:12 PM »
To be clear, I think we should own our shit.  Just because we don't influence the society at large doesn't mean we get a pass on how Islamophobia is flourishing in our community under the guise of criticizing religion.

Online Harry Black

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2017, 06:23:52 PM »
I knew iraqis=bad because the news
I knew middle east in general MAYBE bad because True Lies.
But only as bad as south america because similar movies!

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Do atheists bear (some) guilt for an anti-Muslim climate?
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2017, 06:27:19 PM »
To be clear, I think we should own our shit.  Just because we don't influence the society at large doesn't mean we get a pass on how Islamophobia is flourishing in our community under the guise of criticizing religion.
I agree completely, and I hope I conveyed that!
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