Author Topic: Episode #605  (Read 3731 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2017, 02:41:41 PM »
The chair of the FTC said that she holds health claims on food labels to a lower standard than claims on medicines because foods are safe. But fraudulent claims are still fraudulent claims. Companies can sell their pomegranate juice without doing medical tests, but if they are going to make specific medical claims, they should be held to the same standard of evidence as any other product making a health claim. In the case of fruit juice, it's mostly sugar, which probably outweighs any specific health benefit of one kind of juice over another. I like fruit juice. It tastes good and it has some vitamins. But it's not a "health" food and marketing it as such is fraud.
Daniel
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 02:42:29 PM »

You beat me to it! Hitler didn't have death camps one month into his administration.



When they said that a difference was that Trump did not have death camps, my brain shouted "YET!!!"
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Offline Belgarath

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 02:53:06 PM »
Having lived in a few countries outside the US, the length of time it's taken for chip and pin tech to get to US POS systems seems anachronistic. When it comes to banking, the USA is somewhat off the cutting edge of tech and security.



Important side note, the US STILL does not have Chip and PIN technology.  We have 'Chip and Signature' meaning all you do is sign.  If your chip card gets misplaced or stolen in the US, the thief can still run up the bill by just writing the equivalent of a big X on the pin pad.
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Offline murraybiscuit

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 03:29:18 PM »
Re: the interview with the FTC commissioner:

I would like to have had it brought up how confusing packaging can be.

Take this:



A normal person could easily look at this, see the "Homeopathic" in the lower left, and see the "Clinically proven..." above, and conflate to two to get the impression homeopathy has been clinically proven.

What's been clinically proven to be effective is the zinc, an active ingredient which is decidedly NOT homeopathic.

They should target this sort of thing as deceptive packaging.
Ziccam seems a particularly egregious offender. Have a look at the claims here:



There are 3 listed active botanical ingredients, all at 4x conc. Eucalyptol and menthol are listed as an inactive ingrediens, which seems odd to me. I'm not sure which ingredients here are clinically proven to reduce cold duration, especially since zinc is specifically not present.

According to packaging info on Google, here's part of the write-up:

Quote
Get rid of your cold faster. (This product is not required to go through the FDA's New Drug Application approval process.)

I'm confused. How is this clinically proven if they didn't need FDA approval? Did they just prove the efficacy of their own accord? Who then verified the research?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 03:44:24 PM by murraybiscuit »

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2017, 04:30:01 PM »
I'm not impressed by the concept of drones as a fireworks substitute. Sure, they'll be able to make cutesy pictures in the sky. Billboards already can make pictures. Real fireworks have a quality I don't think drones will be able to imitate in my lifetime.

And I wish they had not wasted ten minutes of the show talking about something as stupid as professional sports.

BTW, I once got talked into attending a super-bowl party. My friend who invited me insisted that nobody cared about the game, the party was just to watch the commercials, which she insisted are always wonderful, and eat snack food. There was plenty of snack food. Nearly everybody there was engrossed in the game, which I could not watch for 5 minutes without being bored out of my skull. And the commercials were just goddamned commercials. Maybe they were less offensive than regular commercials. I don't know because I don't have a TV and didn't then either.
Daniel
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Offline PANTS!

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2017, 07:54:12 PM »
Thanks for that interview.  I really enjoyed it.
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Online Sawyer

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2017, 08:24:47 PM »
Re: Name That Logical Fallacy

The first one that popped into my mind was Hasty Generalization.

Taking the form, because you were wrong on this one thing, you must be wrong on other things as well.

I think it fits better than the ones discussed in the podcast.

Maybe it's because I considered it to be the backbone of the entire Trump campaign, but I immediately recognized the emailer's example as the fallacy fallacy.  Steve correctly pointed out that the fallacies covered on the show tend to beinformal logical fallacies, but nevertheless you can write this one out in terms very close to formal logic to see where the error is.

  • Liberals claim Donald Trump = A.
  • Liberals claim Donald Trump = B-Z.
  • Donald Trump does NOT = A      (I'm being generous and pretending this is a logically rigorous statement)
  • Therefore Donald Trump does NOT = B-Z.

I believe going to that last step is the textbook example of the fallacy fallacy.  Of course hasty generalization would cover it, but as with "non sequitur", it tends to be way too broad of a category to be of any practical use.

Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2017, 09:02:35 PM »
Do you ever see much momentum on the ground barracking for Richmond, Dave?

Sadly we're usually the team trying to stop one, and failing.

Grasping defeat from the jaws of victory is a specialty of ours  ;)  :D  ;D  :)  ???  :-\  :-[  :'(  >:(

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2017, 01:36:04 AM »
I'm not impressed by the concept of drones as a fireworks substitute. Sure, they'll be able to make cutesy pictures in the sky. Billboards already can make pictures. Real fireworks have a quality I don't think drones will be able to imitate in my lifetime.

Massive amounts of smoke that drifts of into the atmosphere, but that nobody sees because it's dark?

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2017, 07:02:21 AM »
Massive amounts of smoke that drifts of into the atmosphere, but that nobody sees because it's dark?

From the drone plant in China?  ;D

Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2017, 07:37:26 AM »
I guess what we need are giant monitors in the sky, maybe like an Independence Day spaceship.

Or would it be cheaper in the long term to have orbiting monitors/drones/whatever forms the image, built from asteroids rather than in Earth's gravity well?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 07:39:53 AM by 2397 »

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2017, 08:14:46 AM »
The waiver isn't really as big a deal as Bob made it out to be. 

I think hyperbole is an ongoing problem with Bob.

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2017, 08:27:18 AM »
I think hyperbole is an ongoing problem with Bob.

If anyone is curious about airspace:



Normal drone requirements on the right.
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2017, 09:39:20 AM »
(click to show/hide)
I'm confused. How is this clinically proven if they didn't need FDA approval? Did they just prove the efficacy of their own accord? Who then verified the research?

I've been curious about the "clinically proven" label for awhile, its always on dubious and obvious snake oil.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything and isn't a regulated label in the US.   

Having lived in a few countries outside the US, the length of time it's taken for chip and pin tech to get to US POS systems seems anachronistic. When it comes to banking, the USA is somewhat off the cutting edge of tech and security.



Important side note, the US STILL does not have Chip and PIN technology.  We have 'Chip and Signature' meaning all you do is sign.  If your chip card gets misplaced or stolen in the US, the thief can still run up the bill by just writing the equivalent of a big X on the pin pad.
There was a planetmoney or freakanomics podcast on this subject a few months ago.  IIRC, France and thus Europe led the way on credit card security because they have relatively more credit card fraud than the US and as with many things, the infrastructure in the US was built out early so by the time the new technology was available there was significant institutional inertia. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:44:11 AM by Ah.hell »

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #605
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2017, 09:40:09 AM »
I'm not impressed by the concept of drones as a fireworks substitute. Sure, they'll be able to make cutesy pictures in the sky. Billboards already can make pictures. Real fireworks have a quality I don't think drones will be able to imitate in my lifetime.

Massive amounts of smoke that drifts of into the atmosphere, but that nobody sees because it's dark?

The bright natural colors of burning chemicals, as opposed to the limited, artificial colors of LEDs, and the natural paths taken by objects under the influence of gravity, as opposed to the flight of man-made flying devices.

That said, I recognize the serious environmental and safety considerations of burning all those chemicals and of manufacturing explosives. I also recognize the hazards of flying tens of thousands of drones over a filled stadium. I'd be inclined to limit drones to essential services like search and rescue, or fire patrol or other critical and life-saving situations. There's a YouTube somewhere showing the use of drones to set controlled backfires, thus taking people out of an extremely dangerous job. I would not oppose outlawing fireworks. I would oppose putting tens of thousands of drones in the air as a substitute.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck