Author Topic: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?  (Read 1305 times)

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Offline Redamare

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 11:02:41 AM »
Thinking about it now, I'm not entirely sure I actually did feel it.

I made a point of going through the mental motions of loving God, but I don't know that there was any genuine feeling there.

Inasmuch as I did have a sense of what sort of love it was supposed to be, I would say it's analogous to a child's love for a parent.

But again, my love for my actual parents corresponds to meaningful facts about the world, the capacity of my parents to suffer, the sacrifices they made for me and my sister, the prospect of losing them. To me, love is not an emotion so much as a connection between two people and all of the needs and obligations that go with it. It's something that arises naturally in response to the relationships between real people.

I'm not sure if it's something you can choose to feel for an imaginary friend because a book says you should.



Ask a Christian the following: say God is destroyed by an usurper-God that will take His place in the heavens, but promises to maintain the same morality as the old God and to relate to you in exactly the same way. Nothing is changed in terms of the fate of your soul or how you're expected to live, but the God you "knew" as a child is personally dead.

Apart from publically paying lip service, do you honestly care?
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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 02:33:33 PM »
I did have a thought though with respect to this. . . .When you have someone die around you - either a relative or a pet, you feel a hole. When many people lose their beliefs, they do feel a similar hole.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 02:50:36 PM »
But again, my love for my actual parents corresponds to meaningful facts about the world, the capacity of my parents to suffer, the sacrifices they made for me and my sister, the prospect of losing them. To me, love is not an emotion so much as a connection between two people and all of the needs and obligations that go with it. It's something that arises naturally in response to the relationships between real people.

I'm not sure if it's something you can choose to feel for an imaginary friend because a book says you should.

That's I think the root of the question many of us are having.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 06:03:53 PM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.

So, in my view, the "love of Jesus" (or devotion to Mohammed, etc.) is a mind game, perhaps an evolutionarily-necessary one, to cope with this existential dilemma. You gonna die.

If I were to start over again on the spiritual trek, I might pursue Buddhism, as some of my atheist friends have, and found compatible with their atheism.

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Offline Redamare

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 06:27:14 PM »
I did have a thought though with respect to this. . . .When you have someone die around you - either a relative or a pet, you feel a hole. When many people lose their beliefs, they do feel a similar hole.

That's a great point. I certainly did. But when you're operating within the belief system, you have no reason to anticipate losing God the way you can lose a person. To do so would be blasphemous, in fact.
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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 08:20:00 PM »
I did have a thought though with respect to this. . . .When you have someone die around you - either a relative or a pet, you feel a hole. When many people lose their beliefs, they do feel a similar hole.

That's a great point. I certainly did. But when you're operating within the belief system, you have no reason to anticipate losing God the way you can lose a person. To do so would be blasphemous, in fact.

I went through a phase of different beliefs so my path was different but I remember that realizing that nobody was at the help and that there is no justice in the universe was pretty disconcerting.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Online arthwollipot

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 11:54:08 PM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?

Offline 2397

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2017, 05:16:30 AM »
What's "the biggest question"?

Does the mind exist (entirely) in the physical body? Or is the universe a simulation? Then once you exit, you're somewhere else.

What I don't get is what's so special about death, in terms of going somewhere else. Why couldn't your soul leave at any time? If existence isn't dependent on the physical, then what are the conditions of significance? Or why would there just be the one death? Maybe your body is loaded with souls, or maybe what happens is that a copy is made. And then more copies. Especially if you're supposed to exist in your young form somewhere else, then might as well create the copy when you're young. And if it's a copy, you don't really go anywhere. Like teleporation.

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2017, 07:54:23 AM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?
Why am I here? Answer: probabilistic randomness.
Mister Beagle
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2017, 05:57:41 PM »
What's "the biggest question"?

Does the mind exist (entirely) in the physical body? Or is the universe a simulation? Then once you exit, you're somewhere else.
Why are these big questions at all? The first has been definitively answered. The second is a fringe theory that right now has very little traction in scientific fields.

What I don't get is what's so special about death, in terms of going somewhere else. Why couldn't your soul leave at any time? If existence isn't dependent on the physical, then what are the conditions of significance? Or why would there just be the one death? Maybe your body is loaded with souls, or maybe what happens is that a copy is made. And then more copies. Especially if you're supposed to exist in your young form somewhere else, then might as well create the copy when you're young. And if it's a copy, you don't really go anywhere. Like teleporation.
Death isn't "going somewhere else". Death is simply ending. There are no souls. Death is what happens when your body stops working.

These aren't big questions at all.

Online arthwollipot

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2017, 05:58:54 PM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?
Why am I here? Answer: probabilistic randomness.
This is more usually given as "the biggest question" than the above, but it's also more or less meaningless and trivial.

Why am I here? Who cares? I'm here - that's all that matters. There is no why. It's as meaningless as asking "why is the sun?"

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2017, 06:16:58 PM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?
Why am I here? Answer: probabilistic randomness.
This is more usually given as "the biggest question" than the above, but it's also more or less meaningless and trivial.

Why am I here? Who cares? I'm here - that's all that matters. There is no why. It's as meaningless as asking "why is the sun?"

You don't care, but millennia of humans staked their lives on the question, killing and dying along the way based on the response.
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2017, 06:23:14 PM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?
Why am I here? Answer: probabilistic randomness.
This is more usually given as "the biggest question" than the above, but it's also more or less meaningless and trivial.

Why am I here? Who cares? I'm here - that's all that matters. There is no why. It's as meaningless as asking "why is the sun?"

You don't care, but millennia of humans staked their lives on the question, killing and dying along the way based on the response.
I am 100% certain that that specific question was not the reason for that. No single question was, or ever has been.

Offline 2397

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2017, 06:11:05 AM »
I am 100% certain that that specific question was not the reason for that. No single question was, or ever has been.

What about the question of "Will their death advance my personal and genetic prosperity?"? Or does that count as two questions?

Offline daniel1948

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Re: What do Christians mean when they say that they love Jesus?
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2017, 09:20:36 AM »
It is not uncommon for atheists to express great unease as to their known mortality. In fact, it was either Jay or Bob who commented on this in the last episode. The real answer to "the biggest question" still pretty much sucks for me.
What's "the biggest question"?
Why am I here? Answer: probabilistic randomness.
This is more usually given as "the biggest question" than the above, but it's also more or less meaningless and trivial.

Why am I here? Who cares? I'm here - that's all that matters. There is no why. It's as meaningless as asking "why is the sun?"

You don't care, but millennia of humans staked their lives on the question, killing and dying along the way based on the response.
I am 100% certain that that specific question was not the reason for that. No single question was, or ever has been.

I think that people kill each other mostly in order to take their stuff. The big question being "Can I get away with it?" Everything else is merely justification. E.g., "Their imaginary friend in the sky is different than my imaginary friend in the sky, so it's okay to kill them and take their stuff."
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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