Author Topic: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?  (Read 834 times)

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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2017, 03:46:00 PM »
is there a eugenics episode?

I haven't watched that one yet.  Supposedly yes, but I can't comment about its quality or arguments until I see it.
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Offline 2397

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2017, 04:52:08 PM »
I'm guessing that's the 13th episode, "Earth's People Problem".

I haven't watched it, but looking over this article, this seems to be the entirety of the eugenics discussion;

Quote
Nye followed up by asking if we should consider penalizing people in the developed world for having “extra kids.” Reider responded affirmatively saying, “I think we have to at least consider it.”

If there was something worse in the episode, I would've expected to see it in this article, as they already make a big deal about not disclosing who is an abortion provider.

Offline Gerbig

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2017, 06:18:02 PM »
Its strange how off the tone is.

In "Bill Nye the Science Guy" he seemed genuinely happy and excited to share information and help people learn. In this show, it almost seems preachy. Less "Let me show you something cool" and more "listen here you idiot".

He almost seems angry and impatient at times. Strangely enough the science in this show seems more dumbed down, even though this show is supposed to be "for adults" and his other was was aimed at kids.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 10:17:30 PM »
Its strange how off the tone is.

In "Bill Nye the Science Guy" he seemed genuinely happy and excited to share information and help people learn. In this show, it almost seems preachy. Less "Let me show you something cool" and more "listen here you idiot".

He almost seems angry and impatient at times. Strangely enough the science in this show seems more dumbed down, even though this show is supposed to be "for adults" and his other was was aimed at kids.
The whole thing feels rushed. Half-assed.I think I'm also outside the target demographic, so maybe that plays in.
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2017, 03:46:42 AM »
Its strange how off the tone is.

In "Bill Nye the Science Guy" he seemed genuinely happy and excited to share information and help people learn. In this show, it almost seems preachy. Less "Let me show you something cool" and more "listen here you idiot".

He almost seems angry and impatient at times. Strangely enough the science in this show seems more dumbed down, even though this show is supposed to be "for adults" and his other was was aimed at kids.
isn't that what the fanboys wanted? 'hey look, old man in a bowtie is saying naughty words to creationists, so epic!' was the impression I got of his fame in recent years.
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2017, 03:50:43 AM »
I'm guessing that's the 13th episode, "Earth's People Problem".

I haven't watched it, but looking over this article, this seems to be the entirety of the eugenics discussion;

Quote
Nye followed up by asking if we should consider penalizing people in the developed world for having “extra kids.” Reider responded affirmatively saying, “I think we have to at least consider it.”

If there was something worse in the episode, I would've expected to see it in this article, as they already make a big deal about not disclosing who is an abortion provider.

really? that's disappointing.
I mean, by eugenics I was thinking about things like our ethics around Downs syndrome abortions and the general idea of 'designer babies' (a baby a parent might be more happy with sounds like a win for everyone involved, even though we're not supposed to admit such a thing could exist as that kind of bias with loving good parents), but even things like getting rid of things certain populations are more prone to, or even if gluten and peanut and all these sensitivities exist, could we look at what could be the human genome issue there?  it doesn't have to be about sheer total-population control, it could be about quality of life that science can contribute to humans whose genes have not yet been determined. seems like a basic enough intriguing future-society issue directly hinging on science and our ethics around our acceptance of using science to better our world. A lot of 'we have to at least consider' stuff is really just ethics/philosophy. that's all this 'extra kids' concept is. So it's sad to think that that would be as close as they'd get to it, seemingly failing to do either the ethical issue of breeding or the scientific issue of breeding well a service. I'd be happy for them to neglect the former to do a good job of the latter.
Quote from: Nietzsche
the inequality of rights is essential to the existence of any rights at all.--A right is a privilege.
Quote from: Ligotti
One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Offline 2397

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2017, 04:47:33 AM »
Reducing reproduction seems like such an easy issue to me, as far what to do if we want to achieve it. Because we have lots of data on it, about what different countries and states are doing, as well as what we've been doing over time, and what is being achieved. Sometimes in spite of policies. Various Western countries and Japan are trying to increase the rates, and falling short of their targets.

The problem is that we don't agree that we should reduce reproduction.

As for eugenics distinct from population control, maybe that would be worth discussing on a show like this, though IMO there's little need to impose on people how they should be reproducing. Because we can achieve what might be achieved from eugenics through increasing the level of freedom and ability people have to control their own reproduction, according to their own personal choices.

If you gave me the choice of producing a disabled child, or a child who would be far more likely to grow up to be an independently capable individual, then I would go for creating a child who has a better shot at life. Not everyone's going to see it that way, but if everyone has the choice, compared to fewer than everyone, more people will make that choice and fewer detectable problems will pass through the various reproductive gates. Unless there are a lot of people who would have children because they're going to be disabled, and who wouldn't have had children if they couldn't have the relevant information and ability to decide.

If fewer people are producing children who need extra care, then it will be easier to provide sufficient care for each one.

Offline Gerbig

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 10:20:17 AM »
Its strange how off the tone is.

In "Bill Nye the Science Guy" he seemed genuinely happy and excited to share information and help people learn. In this show, it almost seems preachy. Less "Let me show you something cool" and more "listen here you idiot".

He almost seems angry and impatient at times. Strangely enough the science in this show seems more dumbed down, even though this show is supposed to be "for adults" and his other was was aimed at kids.
isn't that what the fanboys wanted? 'hey look, old man in a bowtie is saying naughty words to creationists, so epic!' was the impression I got of his fame in recent years.

Not from the people I talked to. The main message I saw over and over again was "Bill Nye the Science Guy is back!"

Offline 2397

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2017, 11:32:59 AM »
Watching the 13th episode, he starts off with a sponge-people analogy that I guess is a reference to an earlier episode. He goes over the basic stuff of people using resources, resources being limited, and people living longer, populations getting older.

Then he goes over women's rights, the point being that it leads to fewer kids. And cuts to a segment about India, going over the same stuff, employing women, etc.

Cuts back to studio, talks about the lack of maternity leave in the US, with the person who did the segment. I think they should've mentioned paternity leave, too.

Next is the "panel of experts" segment. The person that the previously mentioned article complained about not being disclosed as an abortion provider, is introduced as the director of Family Planning at Montefiore Medical Center. That's a pretty good hint.

More talk about education, contraception, access to resources, healthcare. Food, water. Population as a driver of climate change.

And they did talk about how Nigerian population growth was not a significant factor in climate change, but that's where I would take issue with dismissing their insane reproduction levels as if it's not a problem. Current trends have them quadrupling their population within this century. Even if it wasn't an issue for anyone else, that's not going to help them domestically.

After the ethicist said we should at least consider penalizing people in developed countries, answering Bill's leading question, he talked about encouraging changes in norms and culture, which I find to be perfectly reasonable. Dr. Snow then said she would take issue with doing anything to incentivize fewer or more children. That people should have as many children as they want. Which I can sort of agree with. I also don't see that it contradicts the ethicist's point.

There exists a culture, or many cultures, that put a lot of pressure on people to have children. Aside of the broader culture, doctors don't want to sterilize young adults, and are essentially telling them that they're not allowed to decide that they don't want to reproduce. Which is absurd. Having a child and regretting it is so much worse than not having a child and regretting it (sterility is also not an absolute barrier to having children), so why aren't doctors far more concerned with telling people not to have children? If it's an issue with lawsuits, then maybe we need policies here similar to those on vaccinations, protecting providers from frivolous lawsuits.

Continuing, they talk about forced sterilization in the past. Male contraceptives. Back to empowering women. Bill asks if there's an ideal population number, and no one wants to answer with a number. If they had said a number, I'd expect someone to quote them on that and imply that they want to slaughter billions of people. But I think that at least the point should be made that human civilization doesn't need multiple billions of people to thrive, especially with further advances in technology.

Segment over, cuts to segment about birth control. Back to studio, and comments on the segment.

Finally, there's an audience participation segment about lack of space, and the need for perpetual innovation.

I think this last episode was significantly better executed than the first one, but it's still lacking depth.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:45:43 AM by 2397 »

Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2017, 01:26:04 PM »
Let the poor people reproduce in droves.  Penalize the people who are already reproducing at below replacement rate.  It's reverse eugenics.  It's like Bill Nye heard the rantings of InfoWars about the elite wanting to end the white race and thought, "Hey, that's a pretty good idea."  Seriously, what a gift to the right this program is.  Tip of the hat Bill Nye, you're the Tommy Wiseau unintentional genius of right wing propaganda.
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Offline Gerbig

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Re: Bill Nye Saves the World or Does He?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 05:19:13 PM »

 

personate-rain