Author Topic: Episode #618  (Read 984 times)

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Offline Steven Novella

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Episode #618
« on: May 13, 2017, 10:05:38 AM »
Forgotten Superheroes of Science: Lillian Gilbreth; News Items: Satellite Broadband, Anti-Vaccine Pseudoscience, Measles Outbreak, Giant Gas; Who’s That Noisy; What’s the Word: Confabulate; Your Questions and E-mails: Electric Universe; Science or Fiction
Steven Novella
Host, The Skeptics Guide
snovella@theness.com

Offline hallgrim

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 07:21:54 PM »
On Obukhanych... I agree with your frustration... You started with:
 - “just happen to have a PhD”
 - “only 10 research papers”
 - “little more than a glorified technician”
I think your message would be stronger if you focused from the beginning on her claims and not her credentials.

Offline davidlpf

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 09:36:52 PM »
Here is a few arguments against the electric universe.
https://wordpress.com/stats/day/davidsuniverse.wordpress.com
Also there are many arguments in the cosmquest and ISF about the electric universe.

Offline davidlpf

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 09:39:26 PM »
Electric Universe is an extension  of velikovsky  theories of how venus was formed in Jupiter.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 10:27:55 PM »
Regarding the invention of the wall light switch in 'forgotten heroes of science' and what was used before.  I'm old enough to remember there used to be 'cords' or 'strings' which used to hang down from the light fixture, which you'd pull on to turn the light on, and pull on again to turn the light off again (I wonder how the string remembered what to do each time?).

Online Sawyer

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 11:10:17 PM »
On Obukhanych... I agree with your frustration... You started with:
 - “just happen to have a PhD”
 - “only 10 research papers”
 - “little more than a glorified technician”
I think your message would be stronger if you focused from the beginning on her claims and not her credentials.

In general I agree that the methods are what to critique, but in the context of the news story covered, taking a stab at credentials is 100% appropriate.  The ONLY reason this got traction is because a handful of antivaxxer hucksters know if you slap "Harvard Study" in front of a news story, people inherently assume that it is legitimate science.  It is the same tactic anti-fluoridation activists use to desperately shore up their claims.  I can't recall ever seeing "Rutgers study" or "new research from the University of Minnesota" being touted by either of these communities, whereas you would expect to see a diverse set of university names if you follow any legitimate field of science.

It is critical that people understand someone getting a degree from a university tells you zilch about the quality of their work, and neither does getting the occasional paper published in a low tier journal (or for that matter, coasting on a sole Nature publication for 10 years).  The anti-vaxxers want to have their cake and eat it too by bemoaning academia and still trying to appeal to it as a source of wisdom, and I hope this gets pointed out every single time one of these stories makes the rounds on their websites. 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 11:14:51 PM by Sawyer »

Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 02:18:07 AM »
Evan called the SGU cast the "fab five" at the end of the episode.

To make the analogy explicit:

Steve is Chris Webber
Cara is Jalen Rose
Jay is Juwan Howard
Bob is Jimmy King
Evan is Ray Jackson

Agree/disagree?

Offline lucek

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 07:26:31 AM »
I'm kinda surprised you didn't talk about your old friend Neil Adams.  The electric universe was and is a big part of his expanding earth.

Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2017, 07:47:39 AM »
So what happens to those Facebook live streams after they're no longer live?

Offline PatrickG

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2017, 07:09:27 PM »
The rogues were very enthusiastic about Elon Musk's plan for satellite broadband.  Though the idea is cool, the business case for it is not as strong as it seems. 

Satellite broadband competes with existing cable and cellular broadband network infrastructure. In most places there is decent 4G/LTE cellular coverage there is no advantage in switching to satellite. Satellite systems have much higher latency, lower speed and have no coverage indoors. These issues doom satellite internet as a replacement for cellular networks.

The number of people living outside the current cellular coverage is not that high, even in developing countries. The few rural areas that are not covered are demographically often not rich enough to afford the satellite service. The same issue killed the Iridium satellite phone: small market, clumsy hardware, and high cost.

SpaceX is a man with a 'rocket hammer' looking for a nail to hit.  The space stuff is very cool, but the market for conventional space hauling is limited to spy-, weather- and some communication satellites. World-wide satellite internet could be a way to get extra rocket payloads, but it is a long shot. Here is an article addressing this: http://mashable.com/2017/01/13/spacex-elon-musk-satellite-internet-revenue

 


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Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2017, 07:53:50 PM »
I'll use whichever one I can use unmetered.

I'm not at all excited about 5G coming up, because it's irrelevant as long as they keep wanting to charge down to the MB.

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 08:25:59 PM »
As far as how to take action against people like Wakefield for the harm they cause...

I think civil lawsuits would be the way to go, rather than censoring them.

Of course, one would have to prove in civil court a direct causal relationship between Wakefield's speech or actions and some specific harm. Which might not be so easy to do.

But if the skeptical community really wants to do something, funding such efforts might be considered as an option.
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Offline Zucchi

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 09:41:38 PM »
Kind of odd to talk about Lillian Gilbreth and never mention her twelve children, and the book and movie "Cheaper by the Dozen".

Offline effection

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2017, 02:48:36 PM »
Today I taught my significant other, who is earning his PhD in human factors psychology, who Lillian Gilbreth is. Forgotten superhero, indeed!

Online Harry Black

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Re: Episode #618
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2017, 07:44:54 PM »
The rogues were very enthusiastic about Elon Musk's plan for satellite broadband.  Though the idea is cool, the business case for it is not as strong as it seems. 

Satellite broadband competes with existing cable and cellular broadband network infrastructure. In most places there is decent 4G/LTE cellular coverage there is no advantage in switching to satellite. Satellite systems have much higher latency, lower speed and have no coverage indoors. These issues doom satellite internet as a replacement for cellular networks.

The number of people living outside the current cellular coverage is not that high, even in developing countries. The few rural areas that are not covered are demographically often not rich enough to afford the satellite service. The same issue killed the Iridium satellite phone: small market, clumsy hardware, and high cost.

SpaceX is a man with a 'rocket hammer' looking for a nail to hit.  The space stuff is very cool, but the market for conventional space hauling is limited to spy-, weather- and some communication satellites. World-wide satellite internet could be a way to get extra rocket payloads, but it is a long shot. Here is an article addressing this: http://mashable.com/2017/01/13/spacex-elon-musk-satellite-internet-revenue

 


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I do think its really just Jay who was disproportionatly excited.
The idea that they wont leave space trash because Musk 'runs a space company' seems like very poor logic to me. I dont trust the altruism of entrpeneurs.