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General Discussions => Health, Fitness, Nutrition, and Medicine => Topic started by: Nemmzy on February 09, 2017, 05:04:13 PM

Title: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Nemmzy on February 09, 2017, 05:04:13 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?_r=1 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?_r=1)

Christ I need to just walk away from the News for bit.

How does that Sagan quote from the Demon-Haunted World go?
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 09, 2017, 06:45:45 PM
That is a scary looking map and it is only going to get worse for the next few years. Those are almost third world rates.

Australia has got our Vaccination rate up to 93%, by hitting the anti-vaxxers where it hurts. The hip pocket.
Parents of kids that are not fully immunised can't access the Family Tax Benefit. Which can be worth thousands of $ to the average family.
It won't sway the totally committed anti-vaxxers, but it is enough to change the minds of those on the fence or those just blasé or lazy.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: superdave on February 09, 2017, 08:10:17 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?_r=1 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?_r=1)

Christ I need to just walk away from the News for bit.

How does that Sagan quote from the Demon-Haunted World go?

I need a drink?
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Gerbig on February 09, 2017, 09:04:06 PM
Science, logic, skepticism has always been an uphill battle.

We sell cold hard, sometimes low on hope realism.
The woo peddlers sell certainty, hope, an easy, quick, wonderful cure to whatever you may have.

Most people rely on what feels good over what is correct and logical, and unfortunately the "dont put a needle full of chemicals into my baby" appeals to more people than the cold statistics of preventable diseases being prevented by a vaccination.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Desert Fox on February 09, 2017, 09:53:13 PM
It is horrible when we need deaths to wake people up.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: 2397 on February 21, 2017, 08:16:04 PM
Maybe we need some kind of wall to keep unvaccinated Americans from spreading diseases.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: gmalivuk on February 22, 2017, 01:02:32 PM
Given Mexico's extremely high vaccination rate, that might be one way Trump could convince them to build the wall...
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: richm78 on March 15, 2017, 11:31:19 AM
People die every day for all kinds of reasons.  If people don't want to trust science and let their kids die, then so be it.  Once a few kids die due to not being vaccinated, then the message of vaccinations will be loud and clear.  Sorry innocent children, but your parents are morons. *shrug*
Similarly, this Trump election was a wake up call for American politics.  Everybody and their pet is following politics now compared to tumbleweeds a year and a half ago.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: gmalivuk on March 15, 2017, 12:59:31 PM
People die every day for all kinds of reasons.  If people don't want to trust science and let their kids die, then so be it.  Once a few kids die due to not being vaccinated, then the message of vaccinations will be loud and clear.  Sorry innocent children, but your parents are morons. *shrug*
It's not just their kids who die, though.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Gerbig on March 15, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
So, how do we reach people that don't care?
How do we reach people that care, but distrust science?
How do we reach people that have been seduced by charismatic woo merchants?

How do we talk to these people so that they will actually listen and learn?

Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Morvis13 on March 17, 2017, 11:27:06 AM
Make em watch the BBC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE4ef0yQZRU
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: werecow on March 19, 2017, 09:54:49 AM
Given Mexico's extremely high vaccination rate, that might be one way Trump could convince them to build the wall...

If they're vaccinated, why would they need to?
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: gmalivuk on March 19, 2017, 10:06:16 AM
To keep disease-ridden Americans from illegally crossing the border to take advantage of Mexico's healthcare services.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: 2397 on March 19, 2017, 10:30:24 AM
Given Mexico's extremely high vaccination rate, that might be one way Trump could convince them to build the wall...

If they're vaccinated, why would they need to?

Not every person vaccinated is immune, because vaccination doesn't always take. Or it doesn't make you 100% resistant. Some vaccines (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm) are much further from 100% than others. And not everyone can be vaccinated, because of allergies, or being too young, or having a compromised immune system.

So introduce a bunch of unvaccinated people to a population with high vaccination rates, and they will still present a significant risk. It's why many schools ban those who aren't vaccinated. And it's why we need herd immunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity), and for vaccination rates to be as high as possible, to make coverage as complete as possible, especially for the most vulnerable among us.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Tatyana on March 19, 2017, 01:00:51 PM
It is horrible when we need deaths to wake people up.

It was a hideous outbreak of measles in Wales that started an new immunisation trend.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Alex Simmons on March 19, 2017, 07:10:59 PM
Despite being vaccinated, I contracted measles as an adult in late 1994. It was horrible. Terribly bad high fevers (had to sit in shower of cold water to cool down), hallucinations, no sleep for days on end, didn't eat for ~ 10 days. I was suicidal one day. Would not wish it on anyone.

I will always remember the first signs, I abandoned a summer game of golf after a few holes as I felt very ordinary so walked back to clubhouse to sit in the cool while my mates played on. The TV was on and it was the afternoon that Shane Warne got his test hat trick.

I deteriorated in the days following, visited several doctors (including one home visit on evening of NYE) and the hospital emergency (I was convulsing) but no one could work out what was going on until I presented to doctor #4 with the spots, all over my body including inside my mouth. He was an older guy and asked if he could show my symptoms to all the younger staff who had never seen it before, to which I agreed.

I suspect I picked it up during a visit to a local primary school in the week before, during an official visit program at the end of a long stressful and intense work period in a tropical climate and I was so completely knackered I was probably immune compromised.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: meppyman on March 20, 2017, 03:53:30 AM
That sounds dreadful Alex!

I have no kids, don't have friends that I spend time with that have babies or kids, and don't even really like babies that much (dogs are way cuter! :D) but I still got my pertussis booster recently. Doctor asked if I was getting it so I could see a someone's new baby, I told them "nope.. just want to help the herd immunity". Apparently that's not that common, which is a shame.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Nemmzy on March 20, 2017, 09:40:08 AM
That is awful Alex. I am glad you recovered and shared your story. These are serious scary illnesss. Not everyone who is vaccinated will get immunity.

 I work with several school buildings I will be visiting 7 alone this week. I always worry I could pick something up at one school and spread it to another.

Meppyman

I had the grandparents all get their booster when my first was born. So I am sure it is not unusual for people to walk into doctors offices saying "my kid wont let me see my grandkids until I get this shot". Although, one would think adults would want to stay up on that shot for the tetanus protection.
Also, babies smell better than dogs lol ;) !
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: lonely moa on March 20, 2017, 01:35:34 PM
My beautiful wife and I visited a travel clinic for a trip to Africa and a blood test showed our previous measles vaccinations were no longer up to scratch.  We added the MMR to the list of required and suggested immunisations.
Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: Tatyana on March 20, 2017, 07:06:02 PM
Despite being vaccinated, I contracted measles as an adult in late 1994. It was horrible. Terribly bad high fevers (had to sit in shower of cold water to cool down), hallucinations, no sleep for days on end, didn't eat for ~ 10 days. I was suicidal one day. Would not wish it on anyone.

I will always remember the first signs, I abandoned a summer game of golf after a few holes as I felt very ordinary so walked back to clubhouse to sit in the cool while my mates played on. The TV was on and it was the afternoon that Shane Warne got his test hat trick.

I deteriorated in the days following, visited several doctors (including one home visit on evening of NYE) and the hospital emergency (I was convulsing) but no one could work out what was going on until I presented to doctor #4 with the spots, all over my body including inside my mouth. He was an older guy and asked if he could show my symptoms to all the younger staff who had never seen it before, to which I agreed.

I suspect I picked it up during a visit to a local primary school in the week before, during an official visit program at the end of a long stressful and intense work period in a tropical climate and I was so completely knackered I was probably immune compromised.

That sounds completely evil.

I work for the NHS, and I have had the MMR booster in the last five years. I have moved to a new hospital and they want to give it to me again.

Even with vaccines that work well, like Hep B, you can still have a lower response, so you don't have the antibody titre that is deemed acceptable to confer a quicker response/resistance to the pathogen.

It is only when you have to be tested for antibodies, like hospital workers and Hep B, that you realise that there is a variable response.

I had whooping cough when I was about eight, even though I had been vaccinated. I thought I was going to die a few times as I thought I would never be able to breath I was coughing so hard, and then I would throw up. Measles sounds far worse.



Title: Re: The Anti Vaccers are Winning
Post by: lonely moa on March 21, 2017, 03:41:50 AM
And, of course, one's immune system declines with age.