Author Topic: Forum request... A game primary topic.  (Read 3132 times)

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Offline neurascenic

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Forum request... A game primary topic.
« on: June 28, 2006, 09:29:30 PM »
Hello all,

I am new here, yadda yadda yadda.

I just had a thought.  I would like to improve my critical thinking skills.  While it is quite helpful to listen to the podcast and read items here, I am afraid it is probably woefully inadiquate.  (Yes, that is probably my fault.)

So, to help me and others here, how about we have a new primary thread deadicated to a game.    "Spot the fallacy"  Where, Admin and users alike can post a new thread consisting of an argument and see if they can pick the fallacies (or not) out of it.  These arguments can and should come from anywhere, all the rest of life, posts within this forum and even the podcast itself.  Essentially excersizes in gaining proficiency in CT.

Thoughts, rants, raves, flames?

-ñ
 am a fool entrapped within my own wisdom.  - me, to the best of my recolection.

If you are a figment of your imagination, then I am a pigment of my colorization.  - me too.

Offline Wonko the Sane

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Forum request... A game primary topic.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2006, 07:08:44 AM »
Sounds like a great idea, although this is done on the podcast, once a week is never enough.

I guess I will start. I wish I could take credit for this feat of illogic but this is an argument that someone made to me on another forum. It is an argument against skeptisim in general. I have already responded to this but I think it is perfect to start out this game, plus it is so filled with illogic that I could have easily missed a few points.


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 I believe in the supernatural. It has been made to seem that being intellectually advanced and being a skeptic are the same thing. It is not. If you want to be a skeptic, then apply your skepticism in a balanced way. Are you ever skeptical of skeptical programs are on the television, probably not. Be honest. Are you ever skeptical when you hear someone natter on about evolution, probably not?

YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN ETERNITY as it is physically obvious. Can you understand it? Really? NO.

The existence of human life on our planet has no logical explanation. THE BIG BANG … Is that supposed to be logical? Something that came from nowhere and blew up for no reason, and instead of continually expanding out in a random mess it fell back together, (for no reason) to create a organized universe.

ARE YOU EVER SCEPTICAL OF THAT NONSENSE.

Have you ever thought that stage magic is a red herring that keeps us from believing in the unexplainable.

I bet most of you won't like what I have said BECAUSE I AM ATTACKING YOUR RELIGION. If you are an unbeliever THAT IS YOUR RELIGION. You believe what you believe by faith. You can't prove your unbelief by observable fact.

Well, to me stage magic is fun and we don't come to this website to talk religion, but I just wanted to make you rethink your unbelief. I just hope you won't fall into the trap of thinking smart people are skeptics. I can direct your attention to scientists with internationally recognized credentials who are firm believers in God, special creation, and the world of the supernatural.
'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

"People in bamboo houses should not throw pandas" -Jesus

Offline swpalmer

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Forum request... A game primary topic.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2006, 09:36:56 AM »
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YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN ETERNITY as it is physically obvious.


I'm, not sure what the logical fallacy would be here. A tautology?

If this is true then present the physical evidence for it.  That physical observations that I am aware of show that the universe is expanding as if it started with a "big bang".  The observations show that the universe has gone through radical transformations - that it has not always been exactly as it is today.  Planets form, stars explode, etc..  nuclear forces interact to form matter...

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The existence of human life on our planet has no logical explanation.


Except for various theories of abiogenesis combined with evolution.  Why were these ignored?

Is this "Argument from Personal Incredulity" or "Confusing currently unexplained with unexplainable"

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THE BIG BANG … Is that supposed to be logical?


Yes.  Much more so than ANYTHING supernatural.

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Something that came from nowhere and blew up for no reason,


Straw Man?  I don't think the physicists would appreciate being told that there are "no reasons" for the big bang.  Is it not the whole idea to discover the reason?  The assumption, or perhaps it is better to call it the hypothesis, of the scientists are that there IS a reason and we are trying to find it.

Show me any theory of creation that doesn't have stuff coming from "nowhere"?  We are talking about beginnings here.  If you assume that the universe has existed for all eternity... then presumably you can also believe that the "laws of nature" or in other words the "reasons" that lead to the formation of a universe through something like the "big bang" can also have existed for all eternity.  Since the EVIDENCE points to a big bang, guess which theory is preferred?

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and instead of continually expanding out in a random mess it fell back together, (for no reason) to create a organized universe.


This person keep interjecting these little bits of made-up crap that go like this: "for no reason"

What about gravity and other forces?  Aren't theyreasons for the "mess" to clump together?

There are fields of science dedicated to studying the "reasons" to gain an understanding of the universe.   The more we do that, the more se see that it WORKs.

Does this person not believe in sub-atomic particles?  Does he not believe in energy and forces?

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ARE YOU EVER SCEPTICAL OF THAT NONSENSE.


Yes scientists are skeptical of that.  It is that skepticism that leads us to find the evidence and realize that it isn't nonsense.

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Have you ever thought that stage magic is a red herring that keeps us from believing in the unexplainable.


No, quite the opposite.  The stage magic shows us that there are so many things that APPEAR to be supernatural and yet actually have very simple natural explanations that are KNOWN to be true.

Why is it that things that people assume to be supernatural, after some investigation, are shown to be completely natural?  (e.g. Gods pulling the sun across the sky in chariots vs. planet spinning on axis while orbiting the sun) When has it EVER gone the other way?

I'm not sure what the logical fallacy would be for this stage magic "red herring"

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I bet most of you won't like what I have said BECAUSE I AM ATTACKING YOUR RELIGION. If you are an unbeliever THAT IS YOUR RELIGION. You believe what you believe by faith. You can't prove your unbelief by observable fact.


Wow he really went off the deep end. I think that would be a "Straw Man".
The skeptical viewpoint is quite the opposite actually.  We believe things when we are presented with evidence and logical arguments that support the belief.  As far as not liking what the guy says, it's not that we would not like it, we simply see all the errors in the logic.  We don't like the flawed logic, we welcome alternative viewpoints so long as they are supported with logical arguments that fit the observations.

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Well, to me stage magic is fun and we don't come to this website to talk religion, but I just wanted to make you rethink your unbelief.


Why do people talk about skeptics as unbelievers?  I believe in many things.  I just don't believe in random crap that doesn't make sense without supporting logic that fits the observations.  That to me is simply silly.  It would work to support belief in ANYTHING.

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I just hope you won't fall into the trap of thinking smart people are skeptics. I can direct your attention to scientists with internationally recognized credentials who are firm believers in God, special creation, and the world of the supernatural.


What would that be?  Argument from authority?  Because a few fringe scientists accept a supernatural world view it therefore makes sense?

Offline Wonko the Sane

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Forum request... A game primary topic.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2006, 04:53:03 PM »
Pretty good job swpalmer, but you did miss a few
'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

"People in bamboo houses should not throw pandas" -Jesus

Offline Wonko the Sane

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Forum request... A game primary topic.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2006, 03:03:19 AM »
Any other takers???
'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

"People in bamboo houses should not throw pandas" -Jesus

 

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