Author Topic: Alright, Smart Guys...  (Read 3088 times)

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Offline iamthebrillo

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Alright, Smart Guys...
« on: July 30, 2008, 03:46:15 PM »
Here's something to wrap your brains around.

http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/MathFun/Triangle.htm

I kid you not, I've been working on this for three years. I work on it for a week, get frustrated and give up, then rediscover it a few months later.
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Offline Zeno Izen

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 03:48:47 PM »
Wow.  That looks easy.  I'm sure it's not. 

edit: Is it worth it to figure the angles in polygon ABED? 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 03:54:31 PM by Zeno Izen »

Offline iamthebrillo

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 06:34:31 PM »
Wow.  That looks easy.  I'm sure it's not. 

edit: Is it worth it to figure the angles in polygon ABED? 

I've gone at this so many different ways, the only thing I can say for sure is that it's not as easy as it looks. And angle-chasing (using the 180-degree rule) will get you nowhere.
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Offline seanahan

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 08:43:43 PM »
Wow.  That looks easy.  I'm sure it's not. 

edit: Is it worth it to figure the angles in polygon ABED? 

Not really, simple triangle rules get you that far.  After about 15 minutes of triangle manipulation, I looked at the hint, and that rather quickly got me to the solution.  I can post how to use the hint, or what I think the solution is for the first one.

Edit: Nevermind, I suck.  This problem is too hard.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 08:54:02 PM by seanahan »
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Offline iamthebrillo

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 09:02:49 PM »
Wow.  That looks easy.  I'm sure it's not. 

edit: Is it worth it to figure the angles in polygon ABED? 

Not really, simple triangle rules get you that far.  After about 15 minutes of triangle manipulation, I looked at the hint, and that rather quickly got me to the solution.  I can post how to use the hint, or what I think the solution is for the first one.

Edit: Nevermind, I suck.  This problem is too hard.

That "draw a few more lines" hint drives me nuts. I've connected every dot at one point or another, the solution has to be there somewhere.
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Offline Neutral Milk

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 10:11:47 PM »
EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw I fucked something up.

Schlenkerb

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 03:04:30 AM »
You guys... don't reveal the secrets.. I am trying it.. Wow, got all the angles but four of them and I can't remember how I would. Draw more lines? ok.. Didn't think of that.

Schlenkerb

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 03:09:22 AM »
You guys... don't reveal the secrets.. I am trying it.. Wow, got all the angles but four of them and I can't remember how I would. Draw more lines? ok.. Didn't think of that.

Got the answer for the first one but I used guess and check.. My first guess was right. :-/ I really couldn't think of how to do it without reading the hints.

Offline Sordid

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 03:10:33 AM »
That hint about drawing more lines is pretty useless, IMO. All problems of this type I've ever seen require you to draw some more lines. So far I've found that getting the angle itself is fairly easy (you know, you can just draw the thing and measure it), but actually proving mathematically that it is so is turning out to be pretty darn hard.

Schlenkerb

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 03:12:36 AM »
That hint about drawing more lines is pretty useless, IMO. All problems of this type I've ever seen require you to draw some more lines. So far I've found that getting the angle itself is fairly easy (you know, you can just draw the thing and measure it), but actually proving mathematically that it is so is turning out to be pretty darn hard.

The picture they use for "accurately scaled" is bs. There is no way that could be right. I got an answer that looks bigger than the angle they show. But from what I have done, it's right. All the angles add up correctly. (ALL OF THEM)

Googled the answer and I guess I am wrong.. But I don't see how... Wow, weird.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 03:14:48 AM by Schlenkerb »

Offline whitedevilbrewing

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 03:13:04 AM »
"You may not use more advanced trigonomery, such as the law of sines, the law of cosines, etc."


F that.  What's the point of knowing the stuff if not to make problems like this trivial?

Offline Sordid

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 03:20:26 AM »
F that.  What's the point of knowing the stuff if not to make problems like this trivial?

I second that. You can artificially inflate the difficulty of any task by limiting which tools you allow people to use to solve it. World's hardest geometry problem my ass.
Still, it's fun to try anyway. For a while. :P

Schlenkerb

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 03:25:55 AM »
Guys, what is wrong? I am really profoundly stuck. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3858/triangle3ri6.png They all add up from what I have seen...

What am I wrong about? I took it to scale and I should get something else as X but I get that... But the answer isn't that or the other.

Couldn't find a way to disprove it other than looking at the drawn to scale. :-/ I guess it has to do something with similar triangles but whatever. X_X
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 03:40:40 AM by Schlenkerb »

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 03:52:46 AM »
so close... yet so far away :(  too tired to think... will try again later.  i think the 'draw more lines' hint is the key.
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Offline Glenghis Khan

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Re: Alright, Smart Guys...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 03:56:30 AM »
Guys, what is wrong? I am really profoundly stuck. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3858/triangle3ri6.png They all add up from what I have seen...

What am I wrong about? I took it to scale and I should get something else as X but I get that... But the answer isn't that or the other.

Couldn't find a way to disprove it other than looking at the drawn to scale. :-/ I guess it has to do something with similar triangles but whatever. X_X

Your angles 70, 70, 60 and 90 are incorrect.  Without drawing extra lines all you can learn is that;
 x + <BDE = 130,  
<CED - <BDE = 20
<CED + <CDE = 160.
 or linear combinations of the above equations

Although your answer satifies these equations, so do an infinite number of other combinations.  Knowing one of these angles would make the solution trivial.

 

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