Author Topic: That's cool! How do you do that format?  (Read 4603 times)

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Offline Beleth

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2008, 09:07:11 PM »
OK, the KARMA! thread is unlocked again.
I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
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Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2008, 09:16:02 PM »
Given the PMs I received today (which were many) and the general tone of abuse from them, I'd say admins responding to a thread that was off topic and appeared to be heated isn't unreasonable.  We're only human.  What was unusual about today wasn't that people were insulting each other or heated, it was the mass of PMs sent to myself (and possibly Beleth, I haven't asked him) that were abusive and full of vitriol.  And yes, I realize not everyone in that thread sent such a PM.

Well, I am very surprised and disturbed to hear that you were getting rude PMs regarding that thread, if you mean they were PMs about that last argument in the thread. Unless the PMs were not about that part of the thread? That would make more sense to me. Not that it is right to be PMg you guys or anyone with vitriol or abuse, ever.

I see heated and more OT stuff often enough that just goes on for pages, and thought that was accepted behavior in this community. But a split of the thread could have been in order.

OK, the KARMA! thread is unlocked again.

Thanks Beleth. You guys are right that it got waaay OT though. If any of us want to carry on, we should probably ask to split it. I don't know if anyone does want to.

I don't want you 2 to think I am feeling bitter over the lockup, and I think as admins you've taken enough shit for one day.
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Offline ducky

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 09:23:04 PM »
Splitting threads may be the best option, but in order for it to be effective we may have to further refine topics of board sections.  (Like the addition of the flame wars section in explicit -- this was created for threads that do nothing but devolve into graphic insults.)

I'll be starting some threads in the maintenance section regarding board organization and theme changes as they come up.  For now, I'm concentrating on the next code rollout of the forum software.

Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2008, 09:25:21 PM »
Yeah, I just saw that new flame wars section.

I don't think the thread needs to be split unless anyone actually decides to continue the talk. But if they do, arguments about gender and skepticism seem to fit fine in Science/Skepticism Talk or just plain Gen Disc to me.
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Offline Karyn

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2008, 09:41:06 PM »
Well I though me and carrotflowers worked things out just fine without any real flaming going on.

Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2008, 09:42:58 PM »
Well I had to send her naked pictures before she forgave me >:(  but the important thing is we found a way to work it out.

EDIT: I agree Karyn never got heated and didn't need a time-out.
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Offline Bob C

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 10:06:43 AM »
I think we should definitely get a feature that Admins can't use.



I have no justification for this, or suggestion for what it might be. But I know what when I want.

Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2008, 10:51:36 AM »
We should make a boob thread and lock them out of it.
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Offline Beleth

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2008, 11:22:47 AM »
Okay, look.  I'm just a poor schlub who loves the fun culture here and has now been given the power to knock heads of the people who, in my deeply human opinion, are making this board Less Fun.

Two of the people in that thread -- and it's obvious who they are when you read it -- were making the thread Less Fun.  All they were doing was flaming each other.  So I shut down the gas supply to their flamethrowers.  I intended it to be a permanent shutdown, but I am a persuadable man so I unlocked the thread later.

And lo and behold, it worked!  The people who wanted to discuss the topic returned to discuss it, and the flamers didn't.

I now like this tactic a lot better than suspensions or thread-splits (or ignoring the problem) and will probably use it more in the future.  It won't be a six-hour shutdown next time though; probably half an hour to an hour.  We shall see.
I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet

Offline thefellswooper

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2008, 11:24:44 AM »
Okay, look.  I'm just a poor schlub who loves the fun culture here and has now been given the power to knock heads of the people who, in my deeply human opinion, are making this board Less Fun.

Two of the people in that thread -- and it's obvious who they are when you read it -- were making the thread Less Fun.  All they were doing was flaming each other.  So I shut down the gas supply to their flamethrowers.  I intended it to be a permanent shutdown, but I am a persuadable man so I unlocked the thread later.

And lo and behold, it worked!  The people who wanted to discuss the topic returned to discuss it, and the flamers didn't.

I now like this tactic a lot better than suspensions or thread-splits (or ignoring the problem) and will probably use it more in the future.  It won't be a six-hour shutdown next time though; probably half an hour to an hour.  We shall see.

I think that's utter bullshit.  If you think I was just flaming, you weren't reading what I wrote.  Try again.

ETA: And get over yourself.
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Offline Beleth

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2008, 11:37:22 AM »
The fact that you recognized yourself as one of the flamers, sir, combined with the fact that you haven't returned to the thread now that it's been unlocked, speaks volumes.

If your forehead is still sore from that head-knocking, perhaps you would do well to put some ice on it and silently reflect on the situation instead of wailing and sobbing for us all to see.

I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet

Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2008, 11:39:15 AM »
Okay, look.  I'm just a poor schlub who loves the fun culture here and has now been given the power to knock heads of the people who, in my deeply human opinion, are making this board Less Fun.

Two of the people in that thread -- and it's obvious who they are when you read it -- were making the thread Less Fun.  All they were doing was flaming each other.  So I shut down the gas supply to their flamethrowers.  I intended it to be a permanent shutdown, but I am a persuadable man so I unlocked the thread later.

And lo and behold, it worked!  The people who wanted to discuss the topic returned to discuss it, and the flamers didn't.

I now like this tactic a lot better than suspensions or thread-splits (or ignoring the problem) and will probably use it more in the future.  It won't be a six-hour shutdown next time though; probably half an hour to an hour.  We shall see.

I know you feel defensive and I can understand why, but I'm not crazy about the implications of your post here. You decide that a thread is Less Fun and needs to be locked, and it just happens in the future? You say this tactic is better than suspensions? Isn't that tantamount to suggesting that the behavior in that thread, right before you locked it, was equivalent to the behavior that led to ExSpiritual's suspension or Bede's? I don't think the discussion devolved into flamethrowing at all - and doesn't even come close to touching the shit Ex pulled to get suspended.

Also the conclusion you draw that it worked is lacking some evidence. queequeg and I had to resort to PMs to end our part of the discussion.

ducky's explanation that you guys got abusive PMs regarding that thread - and again, I am going to assume they didn't have anything to do with the last couple pages of the thread - was understandable. Yours not so much.  If you were to lock every thread that involves some aggressive language and some form of insult then threads are going to have to be locked left and right. I thought open discussion was part of the very spirit of the forum.
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Offline carrotflowers

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2008, 11:45:29 AM »
The fact that you recognized yourself as one of the flamers, sir, combined with the fact that you haven't returned to the thread now that it's been unlocked, speaks volumes.

I disagree. He used evidence to conclude you were referring to him since he called someone an idiot.

And threads often thrive on some momentum. Momentum got killed when participants got locked out of enthusiastic discussion for over half a day.

Are you saying you think it's ok that you decide when a thread is "Less Fun" and that people need a time out and should get locked out of a discussion? What standards are you using to determine the fun? Was anyone even saying in that thread "Stop it guys this is flaming, this is wrong"?

Why is it part of your work to singlehandedly gauge the worth of threads and shut them down? Surely I am not the only one who thinks this attitude is "Less Fun."
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Offline Beleth

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »
I know you feel defensive and I can understand why, but I'm not crazy about the implications of your post here. You decide that a thread is Less Fun and needs to be locked, and it just happens in the future? You say this tactic is better than suspensions? Isn't that tantamount to suggesting that the behavior in that thread, right before you locked it, was equivalent to the behavior that led to ExSpiritual's suspension or Bede's?

Ack!  No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying that a mod has extremely few weapons in his arsenal.  Usually it's 1) thread split, 2) suspend someone, 3) lock thread forever, 4) ignore the problem.  A temporary time-out is, IMO, a good addition to that arsenal.  It fills a void.

Quote
I don't think the discussion devolved into flamethrowing at all - and doesn't even come close to touching the shit Ex pulled to get suspended.

I disagree about the flamethrowing (obviously).  But I agree that nothing said was suspension-worthy.

Quote
Also the conclusion you draw that it worked is lacking some evidence. queequeg and I had to resort to PMs to end our part of the discussion.

That wasn't part of the success criteria, though.  The flaming stopped.  That was my goal.  That the discussion went on in PMs is news to me, and another reason why I believe I made a mistake by locking the thread as long as I did.

Quote
If you were to lock every thread that involves some aggressive language and some form of insult then threads are going to have to be locked left and right. I thought open discussion was part of the very spirit of the forum.

It has been my experience that insults end open discussion far faster than moderation does.  An insult instantly changes a debate into a battle.  And no, I'm not going to lock every thread that involves aggressive language.  It's gonna be a judgment call every time.
I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet

Offline thefellswooper

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Re: That's cool! How do you do that format?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2008, 12:03:20 PM »
I think it's very obvious now that giving you admin powers was a mistake.  Your 200 posts, most of them nonsense, don't make you an arbiter of what's good and right for the forum that the rest of us can have any respect for.  (But heaven knows, I'm not a substantive contributor to the community - what do I know?)  I sincerely hope this decision is reconsidered, although I doubt it will be.

Maybe you should lock the thread now and give us all a time out.
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