Author Topic: Podcast #45  (Read 38663 times)

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Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 02:35:32 AM »
I respect your view on this Paul.  We don't have to beat this one to death.  I sense a belittling of belief and faith in several of the scientific programs I enjoy listening to, including this one.  This isn't necessarily a criticism, but more of an observation that I think works against the fabric of neutrality that many skeptics would like to project.  

I enjoy this conversation and am hoping it continues in a way that benefits all involved.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.

Offline Wonko the Sane

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Podcast #45
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2006, 04:46:26 AM »
I don't know about what other programs you listen to but the skeptics guide seems to only even discuss religion when it is  infringing on science. Other than in those situations it doesn’t seem to me as if scientists care about religion one way or another.

In the cases where scientific knowledge flies in the face of religion or belittles religion by contradicting it’s tenants, there isn't anything that can be done about that.
'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

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Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2006, 06:28:31 AM »
Science and people are two different things. What science is and what people do in reaction to lies about science by religious people, has nothing to do with how science is use to search for facts.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Steven Novella

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Podcast #45
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2006, 04:52:27 PM »
Wonko is correct in that it is our policy to remain neutral/uninterested in religion per se and faith. We respect freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. Nuff said.

What we do do quite a bit is criticize the sloppy logic, intellectual laziness, and factual abuse of many antiscientific arguments that happen to be coming from one religious context or another, just as we criticize sloppy arguments from any context.

We may say that it is absurd to argue there are no transitional fossils - that doesn't mean we are making any commentary about belief in god, faith in general, christianity in particular - just that this is a factually ridiculous statement.

We even try to avoid saying that people are absurd or ridiculous - what we are really saying is that their arguments are absurd or ridiculous, although we probably slip here quite a bit in he heat of discussion.
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Offline xenu

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Podcast #45
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2006, 07:02:35 PM »
This is my one complaint of skeptics( I like to think that I am one) We get a little fanatical about our subject matter( what ever that may be). You will never sway some one over to your way of thinking if right away you slam there point of view in the first shot. We need to listen and explain carefully our side of the argument, let them know the facts and then let them come to there own conclusions. If they have a belief system that has been with them for all there life your not going to convince them over night. We can plant the seeds of an idea and maybe they will ask more questions and think. I have listen to James Randi on the Penn Jillette radio show(freeFM.com) and he seems very gentle with peoples beliefs if they are wrong. Unless the guy is a con artist then he lets them have it. I hope I made sense.
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Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2006, 07:29:15 PM »
That the same time I have heard people say that James Randi is not gentle, but that is there point of view. Many times when people do not say what you want to hear they sound abrasive.

Me, like I have said before, Randi is a gentle person.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2006, 07:48:04 PM »
Me, I carry a bat.

Paul

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A man goes to his neighbor, a farmer to borrow a mule. He asks if it is a good worker, and the farmer says, “Yes, that it is a very hard working mule”. So he lends the man the mule and a bat. The man comes back the next day all hot and mad with the borrowed mule and bat, and says, "It is the laziest dam mule that he had ever seen and I couldn’t get it to do a lick of work”. The farmer walks over and grabs the bat from the man and hits the mule on the side of the head, and looks at the man and says, "You got to get it's attention first".  :wink:
color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline cyborganics

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Podcast #45
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2006, 02:02:34 PM »
Quote from: "Paulhoff"
Me, I carry a bat.

A man goes to his neighbor... get it's attention first".  :wink:


Ha!


Bewildered true-believer: "Wh - Who are you?!"

Paul: "I'm... Batman!"
cientist: A man who knows nothing until there is nothing left to understand.

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Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2006, 02:29:48 PM »
What do you want, I give only stright answers, ask and I will tell, it may hurt.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2006, 03:47:24 PM »
OK
color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline cyborganics

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Podcast #45
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2006, 04:52:05 PM »
Heh, uh, yeah,  Ok.

 :?

I think I missed something, but then again, I'm easily distracted with shiny things.
cientist: A man who knows nothing until there is nothing left to understand.

www.cyborganics.org

Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2006, 07:53:27 PM »
Quote from: "Steven Novella"
...that doesn't mean we are making any commentary about belief in god, faith in general, christianity in particular - just that this is a factually ridiculous statement...We even try to avoid saying that people are absurd or ridiculous - what we are really saying is that their arguments are absurd or ridiculous, although we probably slip here quite a bit in he heat of discussion.


I thought tonight's podcast was great, but it did slam prayer and faith in the beginning by making fun of people who prayed on June 6.  Just wanted to points this out, since most on here proclaim to be neutral toward faith and respectful toward nonintrusive believers.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2006, 10:27:47 PM »
Try and not to take this wrong, but if we didn't get slammed so much with the prayer bit by the President and the other righteous righties, you most likely would not hear it on the podcast. It wasn't this bad when I was a kid with all this god talk in the government.

Paul

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We are very tired of it.
color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline JD

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Podcast #45
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2006, 10:55:41 PM »
Quote from: "Thakkus"

I thought tonight's podcast was great, but it did slam prayer and faith in the beginning by making fun of people who prayed on June 6.  Just wanted to points this out, since most on here proclaim to be neutral toward faith and respectful toward nonintrusive believers.

I don't remember it right now, but are you sure they weren't slamming the June 6th part, and not necissarily the prayer part?  I personally wouldn't have a problem with it, but I think you might be focused on the wrong part.
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Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2006, 11:54:35 PM »
I'm really not saying I have a problem with it.  I am mildly refuting the claim that the podcast and fellow skeptics tend to remain neutral on the issues of faith and belief.  I don't sense neutrality, though I am not easily offended, since I consider myself a skeptical person of faith.  For instance, I recognize that the so-called science used in the ID argument is bogus.  Yet I have faith in god and purpose and I believe I can be a Christian who does more good than harm in the world thru my views.  

Pertaining to today's podcast, the show was critical and poking fun at the idea of people praying on June 6.  I said a prayer on the way to work on June 6 because I work at a middle school and I had heard many rumors of kids making threats to go ballistic with their guns that day.  I didn't believe any of them, which is why I went to work (and sent my daughter to school, too) but I did feel it was appropriate (and comforting) to say a prayer for calm and peace and in hopes that nobody would actually do anything violent.  Half the students were absent that day, due to scared parents who didn't want to take any chances with a possible Columbine occuring.  Those praying weren't praying because they thought Satan was going to take over the world.  They were praying because they wanted peace and calm.  If neutrality is going to show itself on any faith-based issue, I would think praying for peace and calm would be one issue where the neutrality would be easiest.  And yet, the show basically made fun of the absurdity of such things.  This isn't neutrality.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.

 

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