Author Topic: Podcast #45  (Read 38662 times)

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Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2006, 03:02:04 PM »
I will digress, but I remember when I had to go to church in the 50’s and there were lynching and burning of blacks in the south. And this may be a little unfair, but not once  not once did I hear any praying for that to be stopped.

Paul

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And I am sure Elvis was not happy with any of that.
color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Steven Novella

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Podcast #45
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2006, 08:25:53 PM »
Thakkus,

Again, the intention was to poke fun at the notion that an arbitrary numerical nonevent (6/6/06) has some cosmic significance.

The alternative worry is that the "satanists" would come out of the woodwork - and that is a silly notion also. Satanists are just bogeymen for some fundamentlists.

None of this deals with the faith of Christians, just what is essentially numerology, or irrational fear of non-existent satanists.
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Offline gost

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Podcast #45
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2006, 10:19:25 PM »
Grrr- How come every forum topic has to get turned into something having to do with gods?

Thakkus- I respect your right to feel strongly about your faith, but honestly, I don't think you're going to be happy till you either get an atheist to admit that science couldn't work without god, or you get one of us to admit that we all hate christians.

I respect your right to believe in silly things, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to laugh at the silliness. I'm not laughing at you as a person, just the silliness of your belief. My sister-in-law honestly believes in fairies. She believes that there are things called fairy rings around her house where fairies come out and dance at night. Don't you think that's silly? I do. I laughed when I first heard this.

My wife's grandparents immigrated to the States from the Isle of Mann in Britain. They're all pagans and believe seriously in the old traditions. Some of her ancestors were apparently burned at the stake for their beliefs, by, ahem, christians. I didn't laugh when I heard about that.

(I know, I know, I married into a pretty weird family, but they're all so, you know . . . so sexy.)

You don't ever seem to get the idea that science has nothing at all to do with whether or not god exists. I mean no disrespect, but jeez, I get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again. Why don't you for once just tell us in your own words why you think it's so important that gods be included as part of science? Mind you, I'm not asking you to PROVE that god is part of science, since that isn't possible, I just want to hear why you think the issue is so important. I promise I'll try to listen with an open mind, but I won't promise not to laugh.

Offline bort

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Podcast #45
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2006, 10:58:56 PM »
Quote from: "Steve"
The alternative worry is that the "satanists" would come out of the woodwork - and that is a silly notion also. Satanists are just bogeymen for some fundamentlists.

Personally, I wasn't worried about "Satanists," but I was worried about some jerk that was looking for an excuse to do something wrong.  I am sure if you look hard enough, you will find examples that this did occur.  In my neighborhood, there was a lot of graffiti the on the morning of the 7th, mostly swastikas and KKKs.
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Offline Flamefeather

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Podcast #45
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2006, 10:00:46 AM »
Quote
I respect your right to believe in silly things, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to laugh at the silliness. I'm not laughing at you as a person, just the silliness of your belief. My sister-in-law honestly believes in fairies. She believes that there are things called fairy rings around her house where fairies come out and dance at night. Don't you think that's silly? I do. I laughed when I first heard this.


hey now, I believe in fairies too... granted, I believe in them as a completely unproveable and frivolous thing, and also admit that is IS a silly belief.  (but then, I'm a discordian too... blatantly silly beliefs and not-really-beliefs keep me from being completely depressed about the state of the world. better to laugh at it than cry about it.)

fairy RINGS are a different thing entirely, and I've seen several.  they're caused by fungus with a circular growth pattern, putting up fruits (mushrooms) at the edges of the fungus body.  often, the area inside the ring will be more lush than the area outside.  the dancing-fairies thing was just an explanation made up by a superstitious people who didn't know about the fungus, and thought the near-perfect circles of mushrooms growing in the pasture must have SOME kind of meaning.
e are not always what we seem, and hardly ever what we dream.  -The Last Unicorn

Offline JHGRedekop

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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2006, 10:01:36 PM »
Hm, I'd posted a message here earlier today, but it seems to be gone...

I've just been listening to Podcast #45 (didn't quite get to the end yet), and some of Randi's comments on Vegas reminded me of my wife's experiences with the place.

My wife's a network administrator, and used to go down to the Interop conferences. One year it was held in Las Vegas. Over the course of the conference, it became apparent that neither the hotel management nor the hotel staff were really pleased with the group, though.

Interop is made up almost entirely of computer science types -- who know something about math, and so never gambled (except maybe $20 in the slots just to take a long shot). So the hotels weren't happy -- no casino revenue. The staff was unhappy because, apparently, computer geeks are lousy tippers.

But I think Interop and TAM demonstrate the only way you can really win in Vegas: take the bait, but don't play the games.

Offline JHGRedekop

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Oops!
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2006, 09:34:15 AM »
Just realized, that should have gone under #44. Sorry!

Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2006, 03:13:20 PM »
Quote from: "gost"
Why don't you for once just tell us in your own words why you think it's so important that gods be included as part of science? Mind you, I'm not asking you to PROVE that god is part of science, since that isn't possible, I just want to hear why you think the issue is so important. I promise I'll try to listen with an open mind, but I won't promise not to laugh.


Thank you for the invitation (sincerely).  I am not sure I really need god to be part of science.  Yes, I have faith in god for reasons nonscientific, but no part of me feels like I need skeptics to agree, but instead, I feel that skeptics need to be willing to understand.  When I hear the humor, I smile and can enjoy the silliness in many things tied to faith.  But to the issue of faith itself, I see no reason for dismissal or mockery.  

I'll try to answer as honestly as I can.  Skeptics sometimes seem to overlook the hopelessness that many would feel if their faith systems were destroyed.  True, skeptics live from a perspective that seems to be uninterested in spiritual things, eternal things, or the idea that what we do here matters for some larger, eternal purpose.  But many people need this.  I am still trying to figure out which kind of person I am myself.  Do I need faith?  Do I simply feel myself drawn to the idea that god must be behind this consciousness I have?  Am I okay with there being no god?  Would I still love as strongly, live my best, teach, write, care if there were no god?  These are real questions that apparently all skeptics have already come to terms with.  

Yet would you say the masses are ready to come to terms with them?  Or would you simply let people be hopeless until the faithful have been weeded out of society and we can evolve to a time when nonfaith is the norm (which will be long after all of us are dead, by the way).

So there's part of your answer, gost.  The issues discussed here often come back to god and spirit and paranormal frankly because the term skeptic wouldn't mean anything without such things.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2006, 04:18:49 PM »
I feel much more liberated since I didn't have a god. And the way the world works makes so much more sense without one.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2006, 04:36:20 PM »
There is an old saying “god helps those who help themselves’. Meaning, if you don’t do something about it don’t expect anything to happen.

About consciousness, it is a brain thing. Screw up the brain and you screw up consciousness. Ask anyone that as had a stroke.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2006, 04:42:47 PM »
Quote from: "Thakkus"
I feel that skeptics need to be willing to understand.


We do understand, we have rejected the concept, we do not live in a vacuum. We hear it till we want to throw-up.

Paul

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color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Wonko the Sane

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Podcast #45
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2006, 05:15:31 PM »
Being an atheist give me great hope not hopelessness because it means that humans have the power to change things in the world. Let's take the christian god for an example. If he exist then all war, famine and suffering in the world is punishment from god for origional sin and therefore humans are powerless to put an end to human suffering, it will be around untiull the rapture.  However, if he dosen't exist we have the power to make the world better. Dosen't that give you hope?
'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

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Offline Paulhoff

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Podcast #45
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2006, 05:43:13 PM »
They should have never put that book together in the 3rd century called the bible.

Also, who made this god.

Paul

 :D  :D  :D
color=blue]"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given. - mine
Never in the history of humankind, have so many, known so little, about so much.[/color]

Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2006, 06:29:05 PM »
Quote from: "Wonko the Sane"
Being an atheist give me great hope not hopelessness because it means that humans have the power to change things in the world.


Is this like an argument from personal authority?  My point is not that you are feeling hopeless, but that the masses maintain a sense of hope in their religious traditions.  Seeking to find the positive, inclusive, peace-centered elements of those faiths can be as productive (while not taking anything away from science, since it is wholly separate) as trying to convince people that their faith is bogus.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.

Offline Thakkus

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Podcast #45
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2006, 06:32:01 PM »
Quote from: "Paulhoff"

About consciousness, it is a brain thing. Screw up the brain and you screw up consciousness. Ask anyone that as had a stroke.


"It's a brain thing" is not contradictory to "It's a god thing."  I don't see what counter argument you are making here.
ou're a fanstastic audience.  Thank you ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much.