Author Topic: InterFaith Relationships. (A Fellow Skep In NEED)!!!  (Read 8778 times)

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Offline Luna

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InterFaith Relationships. (A Fellow Skep In NEED)!!!
« on: March 24, 2007, 09:44:18 PM »
Well directly to the issue, my new girlfriend is a staunch pentecostal-christian. My issue is really that she puts her beliefs before me, I mean she is absolutely consumed with church and her beliefs. I'm afraid that our conflicting beliefs are going to be the end of us. Now I certainly don't wish to impose my beliefs on her or change her religion, please be kind, I intend on showing her this. My question is have any of you had inter faith relationships?, and if so I would love to hear your experience. I just want to find some common ground.
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Offline moneyman1490

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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 12:08:10 AM »
I'd start w/ the evolution thing; it should be the easiest thing to prove/ show it has nothing to do w/ her religion.  Interfaith relationships are hard, man.  Good luck.
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Offline Perry

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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 12:32:46 AM »
Break up with her.

And Luna, stop screaming.

Offline cosmicvagabond

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 12:51:45 AM »
Quote from: "Perry"
Break up with her.

And Luna, stop screaming.


Sorry dude, but Perry is right. Find yourself a nice atheist girl.
Bold ideas, unjustified anticipations, and speculative thoughts are our only means for interpreting nature... Those among us who are unwilling to expose their ideas to the hazard of refutation do not take part in the scientific game.    ---Karl Popper, "The Logic of Scientific Discovery"

Offline gweathers

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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2007, 01:10:05 AM »
well i've been through that before and well its about impossible to do anything. Unless she ever doubts her beliefs then you will always be put last when it comes to you or religion. It's really either deal with it or break up.
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Offline Chris Lamb

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2007, 01:16:54 AM »
Quote from: "Chris Rock"
"That's right. lf you born-again, your woman gotta be born-again, too. If you a crackhead, your woman gotta be a crackhead, too...or the shit won't work. You can't be like, ''l'm going to church, where you going?'' ''Hit the pipe!'' That relationship ain't going nowhere.

Two crackheads can stay together forever."


I agree, start with Evolution. If you really like this girl you may need to fight fire with fire. I don't think logic or reason will get to her so perhaps suggest that maybe evolution was the way God created us. She will feel less threatened by evolution if you can show her the two need not be mutually exclusive. Talk about different ways we can all interperate the Bible. If she has a very literal interpretation of it, ask her to consider how perhaps greater lessons can be learned from the Bible if it's offered as a guide to live by or symbolic story.

To make any ground at all you'll need to be as non-confrontational as possible. Go for an inquisitive tone and try not to question her beliefs, but the consequences of innacurate scriptural interpretation. Don't point out there are other religions just as dumb as hers, but openly muse on some good philosophies of the various religious counter-parts.

What I'm suggesting is that you attempt to weaken any automatic defenses she has from previous confrontations then slowly encourage her to to think about her own religion in different ways, then maybe other religions, then maybe fucking reality who knows?

The best of luck to you sir.
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Offline IRON MAN

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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2007, 02:45:55 AM »
My wife is a Jehovah's Witness and I never considered our differing beliefs  any more significant than if she were a hippie vegan, believed in astrology, romantic destiny or any of the other crazy-arse shit that many people out there believe.

We are now irreconcilably separated, but I assure you that it had nothing directly to do with our differing beliefs.  

I was a soldier, and I still believe there are political causes worth fighting, killing and dying for.  I would expect any woman of mine to respect that, and she has zero chance of stopping me from acting on my principles and beliefs if and when the time comes.  So I'm hardly going to get on her case because she would rather die on the operating table for the lack of a blood transfusion because of her beliefs.  I don't have to agree with them.  I don't have to even like them.  I would NOT enjoy the process.  But I do respect them, and would defend her right to those beliefs against anyone who said otherwise.

She knew I didn't share her beliefs right from the start and I made my feelings on the matter perfectly clear.

It is my contention that within any relationship including marriage, there is a certain core individualism that defines us as people that we can't concede at the other person's whim.  For example, if my wife said she wanted me to act immorally to prove I loved her, I'd tell her that's never gonna happen, and deal with the consequences.

And if I did capitulate to her wishes, I would certainly not be the man she married, and loved in the first place.  In other words, there are 'higher' considerations than our relationship, her feelings, and there are damn good philosophical reasons for that.

This is a microcosm of the political coexistence so well defined by the principle of Freedom of Speech.  I don't have to agree with you.  I don't have to like what you say.  I can tell you that I don't agree with you.  I can try to change your mind if I want through open discussion.  You can try to change mind too.  What neither of us can do is try to force the other person to change their mind.

In other words, there are 'higher' considerations than your [significant other], just as there are higher considerations than your own life.  If someone considers one of them to be their god or their immortal soul then although I think they are wrong I'll let them live according to that belief.

I actually used to participate in my wife's, "Bible studies", because I wanted to expand my understanding of her bullshit belief system, and the Bible in general.  But made it perfectly clear that I would not engage in, (or pretend to engage in), any act of worship, or other nonsense.  

The only time I would shut up about what I thought of the crap I was reading was when she was praying - not because I felt I was required to, or out of respect of the "holiness" of such a thing, but because it would have been interfering with her personal act of worship which is her choice.

These times were also a good opportunity for me to open a dialogue about the validity of her beliefs, or just bring minor discrepancies in the Bible to her attention and that of our children.

Which brings me to my next point.  You had better have your policies about your children nailed down hard and cast in bronze, because that is gonna be a major cause of conflict if you don't.  For me, I am a stepfather, so my children had already been raised as JW's.  I did not feel I had equal pull in changing their beliefs at that point, (teenagers), even though I thought that belief system was harmful.  What I did do, was to not keep my position a secret, unapologetically pointed out things I disagreed with, and answered their questions when they asked.

As for our separation and pending divorce, I will just say that my wife has other issues, which although not entirely unrelated to her beliefs, are more a result of the unbalanced nature of her beliefs and their effect on her personality more generally.   Likewise, the way she is cannot be entirely blamed on her religion.

I stayed married to this woman for 5 years and loved just about every minute of it.  I still love her, I just can't live with her, like you could not expect a woman to live with a man who beats her, regardless of how she feels about him.  If she did not have the specific problem she has, and was still a Jehovah's Witness, I would still be married to her, and I would marry her 20 times over any day of the week.


And to anyone on this board who for any reason was under the impression that I am in any way intolerant, I'd just like to say:

In your face hippie!

Beat that for tolerance you dope-smoking, dolphin-hugging politically correct jerkweed.
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Offline cosmicvagabond

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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 09:34:49 AM »
Quote from: "IRON MAN"
Beat that for tolerance you dope-smoking, dolphin-hugging politically correct jerkweed.


Hey... I've never hugged a dolphin in my life (although I probably would if I could  :D )
Bold ideas, unjustified anticipations, and speculative thoughts are our only means for interpreting nature... Those among us who are unwilling to expose their ideas to the hazard of refutation do not take part in the scientific game.    ---Karl Popper, "The Logic of Scientific Discovery"

Offline Chico

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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 11:00:15 AM »
If you can say "at least the sex is great", then maybe there's hope. For one reason, because at least the sex is great. For another, because it would be a good indication that she's not interpreting the Bible that literally.

But if can't say that, forget it.

I think that kind of interfaith relationship tends to create much more practical problems than the evolution x creationism discussion. Darwin or Noah's Ark, who cares - if you really love each other, you work around it by keeping an honest discussion.

If neither of you really cared and were willing to live with your differences, I'd say go ahead - as long you're both very honest about her beliefs and your non-beliefs. But clearly both of you are already disturbed by your differences.

If you do think it's worthwhile investing in the relationship, just make sure she respects your non-belief and your right to doubt her claims.

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Offline Bartmon

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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 11:03:22 AM »
Ironman,

Thank god you guys didn't have kids...

Which leads me to the next topic...

If you make it work with this girl and you end up getting married, and you decide to have kids, how are you going to be able to sit by and watch your kids be raised in a system that is basically child abuse where they are absolutely pounded with dogma and the story that they are 'sinners' are going to hell unless they accept jesus into their hearts repeadetly.

Trust me when I say that when you have children of your own to watch them (as blank sponges) be brought up under some ridiculous ideas kills you a little each and every day.

For me, I'm lucky, my wife's an atheist too. I have an athesit friend, however, who's three kids are forced to go to catholic school. I know that it kills him but he knows that his wife won't budge on it.



Bart
esus Never Existed

Offline Ciro

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Re: InterFaith Relationships. (A Fellow Skep In NEED)!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2007, 11:08:09 AM »
Quote from: "Luna"
but for god's sake she is an evolution denier!

I found that sentence funny (it can be read in several ways).

In short, I'd say end it now, but I should probably admit that I should have zero say in this matter, because I'm basically retarded when it comes to this sort of stuff.
Yours is a situation that interests me greatly, and I've given much thought to it and haven't arrived at any good decisions yet. I can't say that it could never work (Iron Man just proved it can), but I don't understand inter-faith relationships, and until I can, I know they will probably never work for me. I haven't had a girlfriend in five years because I just haven't been interested in anyone who believes anything paranormal, and in the small town where I'm from I knew I wasn't going to find anyone (so I went to a major university in a city and it seems atheists are few and far between everywhere). Skepticism is a major part of my personality. I'm certainly not intolerant. Most of my friends were in fact believers in all sorts of things until just being around me turned them into skeptics and atheists (I never tried to change anyone).

The reason I don't get it is: What is your (or any inter-faith relationship's) reason for being together? Usually people want to have something in common. Faith is a major issue, at least for me, and I know it's very important for a lot of believers. What is your current common ground? You're both attracted to each other? Not good enough. You both enjoy the same music, movies, TV shows? Still not really good enough. Skepticism is a major part of who you are, and her religion is certainly a major part of who she is, if she's willing to deny scientific consensus to placate her god and religious leaders. I've always thought Beliefs, like politics and religion, were key. As a Libertarian I doubt I could make a relationship with someone who's more Socialistic or Communistic, and I don't think a relationship with anyone who is less than Agnostic could last.
If your only common ground is that you both listen to the same music and you both want to be with somebody, I'd say try to find a better match. Many people would disagree (and most of these people are probably much happier and much less cynical than I am).

Without derailing the thread too much, I'd like to know what reasons would there be for sticking with someone you are so different from instead of 'trading up' for someone 'better'?
 have found that the more educated I get, the less I want to do with you smarmy assholes and your obsession with pushing your ideals on other people and and killing their buzz because you think you're helping them.

Offline Luna

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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2007, 11:33:39 AM »
Well emotions are hard to deny. You can develop emotional attachment and that is hard to past by. She's a sweet, sexy, and extremely intelligent girl and I think we could potentially have something special, her beliefs are just a minor annoyance. I was interested in seeing how others would have dealt or are dealing with interfaith relationships. Maybe the old clitche is true; opposites attract.


Luna wrote:
but for god's sake she is an evolution denier!

I found that sentence funny (it can be read in several ways).

I know Ciro it's my sarcasm,
Praise Jesus.

Offline 6for2

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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2007, 10:20:37 PM »
It's tough to dissect the intricacies of human relationships.  Does your skepticism really bug her? Love and trust are paramount; other things can be worked on as time passes.  The thing you really need to ponder is:  if her religion comes before you, are you ready to accept that?  Is there likely to be any interference in your relationship from her church authorities?  Good luck to you.  Any way you slice it, it's going to be a gooey cake.

Offline Dave The Drummer

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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »
I've been trying to find a way of saying something but I'll just blurt it out.

If there is no crack in her beliefs, no place where you can see the light of rationality peeking out, if there is no willingness to at least look at the evidence and analyse the data logically and rationally then she's a lost cause.
There will come a time when she will choose to do what her religion demands over you.

People believe all sorts of things but if it's unassailable then you're banging your head against a brick wall.
You're not even going to get the the point where they know that their beliefs don't make any sense but they do it anyway because it brings them comfort. That's kind of OK.
If you can get there then at least it's not going to cause any friction.
If they're totally committed then the relationship is going nowhere.

You'll just end up going bananas or she'll end up pitying you as a lost sheep.

If you can handle that, then go for it.
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Offline Opcn

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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 05:31:26 PM »
There are too few Atheist girls out there, makes me sad. Personally I often find myself with Christians, not because I like them but because there are so many of them. I say that if they are rational then you should respect there beliefs, MORmONs Scientologists, Christian Scientists Jehovahs Witnesses, and all other ilk of cultists are however not good matches for Critical thinkers, because everything they do is based on crazy.

Thats just my opinion however.

Bottom line, if she deserves it, be respectful to her, if she doesn't, break the hell up.

Edit: Is she hot, because if shes really good looking all bets are off, she can be a scientologist if she looks like Eva Mendes, after all you are still a guy, and some things are worth being emotionally crippled for in the end.

Edit 2: Add "Non-denominational" Christian to that list of crazies, they are the most exclusive and demanding denomination of christianity, and they have the gall to say that they are not a denomination.

 

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