Author Topic: The Story of Stuff?  (Read 2798 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline whitedevilbrewing

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10421
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 04:35:42 AM »
What part seems odd?

Offline lardbeetle

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 05:07:14 AM »
(as I am going in the video)

EVIL CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL  ::)

I find it very hard to believe that only 4% of the US's forests are still standing.  Hell, Washington alone probably has about that much.... unless they are very trickily excluding replanted forests....

Oh, here's the toxin word.  SYNERGISTIC HEALTH EFFECTS OMG TOXINS ARE BAD OMG OMG OMG WE NEED TO GET TOXINS OUT OR WE WILL DIE

What are we doing using a toxin?  Because it fucking works and is safe, numbnuts.  When was the last time you made a sandwich from a computer motherboard?

Oh no, human breastmilk is apparently toxic now.  Never mind that it has been shown repeatedly to be more healthy than formula.

Oh, hey, guess what?  Those women of reproductive ages are safeguarded from the toxins!

Toxins, toxins, toxins, toxins.  More anti-capitalist, anti-consumption rubbish, typical hippie bullshit.

30% of kids in the Congo are mining Coltan?  Gee, maybe that's because of the goddamn civil wars....

Oh no, President Bush asks us to shop in the face of a disaster for our economy?  WOW!  AMAZING!  He's taken Econ 101!

1% of the stuff we buy is still in circulation in a year?  Maybe if you include food, paper, and other disposable goods.

Producing more consumer goods is more important than justice, than transportation, etc..... because it is the BASE OF THE FUCKING PYRAMID.  You can't fund a police department without someone that makes the cars, radios, and pays the taxes that pay the salaries of the police!  If we stopped consuming, we would stop producing, which would mean that we would not be ABLE To consume!  We would all be impoverished and would, in fact, have much more in common with Pakistan than with the nation we currently are!

Barbecues and DVD's are victims of planned obsolescence?  Pray tell, how so?  Is a 20 year old barbecue going to fail to cook a fucking burger?  Is the advancing march of digital technology an evil conspiracy by Sony, Toshiba, and the movie industry to make us by new films every 10 years?  Maybe, but I think that there's a simpler explanation.

Quote
Even computers. Have you noticed that when you buy a computer now, the technology is changing so fast that within a couple years, it’s [your new computer] actually an impediment to communication. I was curious about this so I opened up a big desk top computer to see what was inside.52 And I found
out that the piece that changes each year is just a tiny little piece in the corner. But you can’t just change that one piece, because each new version is a different shape, so you gotta chuck the whole thing and buy a new one.

TINY PIECE IN THE CORNER?  OH MY FUCKING GOD

Things that change roughly every five years in computing:
*Processor
*Memory speeds
*System interlink buses
.... which necessitate changes in:
*Processor sockets (to allow for greater bandwidth interconnects)
*Motherboard chipsets (to support the new bus types and sockets)

It's not just that it is a different fucking shape.  Trying to put a Core 2 Quad into a Pentium 2 - based computer would be like trying to use a magazine from an AK-47 in a muzzle-loading musket!  It would be like trying to fill up your horse with diesel!

Yeah, yeah, perceived obsolescence.  Can you blame someone for marketing?  Amazing, companies want to sell things.  You want to sell things, too.  You're advertising for your fucking website to get donations to pay your salary so you can make this video on what is, according to you, a computer that is destroying the world because its little corner part changes shape every four years.

Less time?  Less time?  100 years ago there were actually laws passed limiting children to 80 hour work weeks!  She thinks we have less time nowadays to do stuff!  Go live in a fucking cave, you moron.

Oh, commercials make me shop, now.  I can't remember the last time I bought something because of a commercial.  baaaaa I'm now a sheep because internet bitchtard lady says I am.

Yes, yes, incineration is bad, whatever.  Oh, juice packs are designed not to be recyclable?  I thought they were designed to be inexpensive to manufacture and safe and airtight.  That's why they have wax, aluminum, and paper.

By the people and for the people?  Lady, if you ran a country, it would collapse in 3 months.  You'd be mining Coltan for the people in the US, or shot because your people didn't like the fact that now everyone is so poor that they're shooting each other for food.




Finally....


Where are the damn sources?
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"The communist party must command all the guns, so no guns can ever be used to command the party."~ Mao

Offline Chew

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9188
  • Juror #8
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 11:09:24 AM »
Why do they let the Unabomber makes videos and upload them from prison??? Seriously, most of this is from his manifesto.
"3 out of 2 Americans do not understand statistics." -Mark Crislip

Offline Rocket Man

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 778
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 07:08:46 PM »
(as I am going in the video)

EVIL CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL  ::)

I find it very hard to believe that only 4% of the US's forests are still standing.  Hell, Washington alone probably has about that much.... unless they are very trickily excluding replanted forests....

Oh, here's the toxin word.  SYNERGISTIC HEALTH EFFECTS OMG TOXINS ARE BAD OMG OMG OMG WE NEED TO GET TOXINS OUT OR WE WILL DIE

What are we doing using a toxin?  Because it fucking works and is safe, numbnuts.  When was the last time you made a sandwich from a computer motherboard?

Oh no, human breastmilk is apparently toxic now.  Never mind that it has been shown repeatedly to be more healthy than formula.

Oh, hey, guess what?  Those women of reproductive ages are safeguarded from the toxins!

Toxins, toxins, toxins, toxins.  More anti-capitalist, anti-consumption rubbish, typical hippie bullshit.

30% of kids in the Congo are mining Coltan?  Gee, maybe that's because of the goddamn civil wars....

Oh no, President Bush asks us to shop in the face of a disaster for our economy?  WOW!  AMAZING!  He's taken Econ 101!

1% of the stuff we buy is still in circulation in a year?  Maybe if you include food, paper, and other disposable goods.

Producing more consumer goods is more important than justice, than transportation, etc..... because it is the BASE OF THE FUCKING PYRAMID.  You can't fund a police department without someone that makes the cars, radios, and pays the taxes that pay the salaries of the police!  If we stopped consuming, we would stop producing, which would mean that we would not be ABLE To consume!  We would all be impoverished and would, in fact, have much more in common with Pakistan than with the nation we currently are!

Barbecues and DVD's are victims of planned obsolescence?  Pray tell, how so?  Is a 20 year old barbecue going to fail to cook a fucking burger?  Is the advancing march of digital technology an evil conspiracy by Sony, Toshiba, and the movie industry to make us by new films every 10 years?  Maybe, but I think that there's a simpler explanation.

Quote
Even computers. Have you noticed that when you buy a computer now, the technology is changing so fast that within a couple years, it’s [your new computer] actually an impediment to communication. I was curious about this so I opened up a big desk top computer to see what was inside.52 And I found
out that the piece that changes each year is just a tiny little piece in the corner. But you can’t just change that one piece, because each new version is a different shape, so you gotta chuck the whole thing and buy a new one.

TINY PIECE IN THE CORNER?  OH MY FUCKING GOD

Things that change roughly every five years in computing:
*Processor
*Memory speeds
*System interlink buses
.... which necessitate changes in:
*Processor sockets (to allow for greater bandwidth interconnects)
*Motherboard chipsets (to support the new bus types and sockets)

It's not just that it is a different fucking shape.  Trying to put a Core 2 Quad into a Pentium 2 - based computer would be like trying to use a magazine from an AK-47 in a muzzle-loading musket!  It would be like trying to fill up your horse with diesel!

Yeah, yeah, perceived obsolescence.  Can you blame someone for marketing?  Amazing, companies want to sell things.  You want to sell things, too.  You're advertising for your fucking website to get donations to pay your salary so you can make this video on what is, according to you, a computer that is destroying the world because its little corner part changes shape every four years.

Less time?  Less time?  100 years ago there were actually laws passed limiting children to 80 hour work weeks!  She thinks we have less time nowadays to do stuff!  Go live in a fucking cave, you moron.

Oh, commercials make me shop, now.  I can't remember the last time I bought something because of a commercial.  baaaaa I'm now a sheep because internet bitchtard lady says I am.

Yes, yes, incineration is bad, whatever.  Oh, juice packs are designed not to be recyclable?  I thought they were designed to be inexpensive to manufacture and safe and airtight.  That's why they have wax, aluminum, and paper.

By the people and for the people?  Lady, if you ran a country, it would collapse in 3 months.  You'd be mining Coltan for the people in the US, or shot because your people didn't like the fact that now everyone is so poor that they're shooting each other for food.




Finally....


Where are the damn sources?

I noticed the same B.S. you did. It usually wouldn't bother me except for the fact that Professors in college are recommending it. I'm trying to get my friend to listen to the SGU because it's awesome and he is starting to believe some stupid stuff.

The things that bugged me the most is that she didn't site any sources and her entire Toxin part. I was just very......skeptical about some of her claims.

Offline Arkholt

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
  • Unknown
    • The Bird Feeder
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2010, 12:54:25 PM »
I remember my wife showing that to me a while back.  I find it odd that certain people who call themselves "progressive" misunderstand the idea of progress.
The Daily Panel, a blog about comic strips | The Bird Feeder, the webcomic about birds.  We have the water cooler, they have the bird feeder.

Offline whitedevilbrewing

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10421
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 02:38:41 PM »
Good summary :)

Offline llamaFaceKillah

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 11:37:58 PM »
Quote
EVIL CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL  ::)

Evil... What a ridiculous thing to say, even if you are being sarcastic.

All your ranting doesn't' change the fact that corporations have one legal obligation, profit.

By design these institutions must always do what is best for sake of profits, making all other obligations secondary (Humanity, environment, sustainability, quality...ext).

I don't understand how anyone can't understand that concept. Just turn on the news for a day: BP Oil spill, Toyota recall, kids toys stabbing them...ext. Everyday in the news there is another story of corporations cutting corners for the sake of profit.

Again I am not saying that corporations are evil  >:D That is a ridiculous notion. What I'm saying is that for the most part, they do not share a common interest with the realities of the world.

I do agree with much of your criticism of that particular video; however do not follow your logic to defend capitalism so faithfully.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 11:40:18 PM by llamaFaceKillah »

Offline lardbeetle

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 11:41:29 PM »
Quote
EVIL CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL  ::)

Evil... What a ridiculous thing to say, even if you are being sarcastic.

All your ranting doesn't' change the fact that corporations have a one legal obligation, profit.

By design these institutions must always do what is best for sake of profits, making all other obligations secondary (Humanity, environment, sustainability, quality...ext).

I don't understand how anyone can't understand that concept. Just turn on the news for a day: BP Oil spill, Toyota recall, kids toys stabbing them...ext. Everyday in the news there is another story of a corporations cutting corners for the sake of profit.

Again I am not saying that corporations are evil  >:D That is a ridiculous notion. What I'm saying is that for the most part, they do not share a common interest with the realities of the world.

I do agree with much of your criticism of that particular video; however do not follow your logic to defend capitalism so faithfully.

Capitalism has its flaws, and I am not defending them.  What I am doing, however, is pointing out the gross oversimplifications present in the video (i.e. corporations are bad because they are rich and like money).  There are some corporations out there that take great pains to be environmentally conscious, either because it helps their bottom line or it's important to their shareholders.

Corporations do not exist to make money, per se.  They exist to represent the will of the shareholders.  If those shareholders want to have a green corporation, then green it probably shall be.  If they don't give two shits, then BP it shall be.

(Actually, I would anticipate that BP will become probably the most environmentally friendly oil company due to the pressing need to counteract all the bad PR...)
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"The communist party must command all the guns, so no guns can ever be used to command the party."~ Mao

Offline llamaFaceKillah

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 11:45:45 PM »
Quote
Oh, commercials make me shop, now.  I can't remember the last time I bought something because of a commercial.  baaaaa I'm now a sheep because internet bitchtard lady says I am.

Wow :o. Do you really underestimate the power of advertising in all of its current forms? It's not just from commercials, that shits old school.

Anyway for the sake of time I'm not going to post any of the X amount of scientific studies proving the extremely effective methods of modern advertising.

Ignorance is bliss is suppose.

Offline lucasdigital

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Prattle farming since 1971
    • lucasdigital's homepage
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 08:24:44 AM »
The consumer society is largely responsible for the fantastic economic growth of the 20th century. We  (those of us lucky enough to be living in the developed world) are all much better off as a result of consumerism. Unfortunately what worked brilliantly in the past, doesn't necessarily work going forward - especially when China's middle class makes the same demands as U.S. or European citizens.

Doran does over state some of her cases, but to dismiss the debate out of hand would be a terrible mistake.
M a r k   L u c a s
----------------------------
www.lucas-digital.com

Offline snakeman

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 08:37:54 AM »
Quote
Oh, commercials make me shop, now.  I can't remember the last time I bought something because of a commercial.  baaaaa I'm now a sheep because internet bitchtard lady says I am.

Wow :o. Do you really underestimate the power of advertising in all of its current forms? It's not just from commercials, that shits old school.

Anyway for the sake of time I'm not going to post any of the X amount of scientific studies proving the extremely effective methods of modern advertising.

Ignorance is bliss is suppose.

So you're saying that no one has free will and freedom of making an informed decision as we're all just puppets of the advertising agencies?  I call BS.   True, advertising is very sophisticated, pervasive, and persuasive but the decision to purchase or not still comes down to the individual.

I've been sitting on the couch around dinner time watching TV and wondering what to have for dinner when a Dominoes commercial comes on.  After the commercial, I am more likely to say "I feel like pizza" than I might have been before the commercial, but I'm still just as likely to cook something at home (though maybe it will have a tomato sauce component now) than I am to order in a pizza.  However, if I'm watching TV and say "I feel like pizza" and then see a commercial for Dominoes, I'm more likely to call them than Papa Johns.

I agree that advertising is effective.  Hell, they wouldn't spend money on it if it didn't work.  However, anyone who says that they feed their child McDonalds every day because the advertising makes their child demand it and throw a tantrum is just deluding him/herself by saying the bad parenting skills (not saying 'no' to the child) are the fault of the advertising.   

I know that's not the point you made directly, but it's one that I often see come up in close association with the "advertising is stronger than you think" comment and we're treading close to that ground.


As for the original post and the video, there's a decent core sentiment that we as a society should be less reliant on the disposable products and over-consumption of what becomes trash in just a few days/weeks.  Hell, I despise the folks who throw out their iPhone and run out to get the next one because it's a new color and has one more MB of memory that they won't use than the one they bought just six months ago and don't use fully already.  However, it tends to go too quickly to the shrieking absolutes and over-generalizations that all conveniences in the world are terrible.  Also second the "where's the sources" criticism.

Offline llamaFaceKillah

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 11:02:46 AM »
So you're saying that no one has free will and freedom of making an informed decision as we're all just puppets of the advertising agencies?  I call BS.   True, advertising is very sophisticated, pervasive, and persuasive but the decision to purchase or not still comes down to the individual.

I know that's not the point you made directly, but it's one that I often see come up in close association with the "advertising is stronger than you think" comment and we're treading close to that ground.

Thank you for admitting that was not the point I made directly. It was not my intention to lead you to think that all of the industrialized populations are mindless sheep only motivated by advanced forms of marketing.

That still doesn't change the fact that marketing research organizations are using everything in their power to get you to not only consume, but consume their products for life.

I understand that manipulation is the nature of advertising; however their are a lot of ignorant people in this culture and most of them have no idea of how much advertising effects their decision making on a daily basis.

There is little attempt to educate people that advertising is misleading and manipulative, I believe that is the problem. The average consumer doesn't realize that he/she or their children are constantly bombarded with advertising in as many psychological ways as possible.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 11:08:12 AM by llamaFaceKillah »

Offline Ah.hell

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12817
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 11:22:15 AM »
toxins evil, corporations evil, government needs to do more etc.  I quit somewhere about 7:30, I may return later but when you start claiming that subsistence farmers are leaving their homes because environmental degradation leaves them no other choice, I'm going to start ignoring you.  Subsistence farming worked so well for the world up until evil corporations and industrialization forced its end.   ::)

Offline burpy

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
Re: The Story of Stuff?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 12:59:13 PM »


Wow :o. Do you really underestimate the power of advertising in all of its current forms? It's not just from commercials, that shits old school.

Anyway for the sake of time I'm not going to post any of the X amount of scientific studies proving the extremely effective methods of modern advertising.



Could you at least post some links? I´m interested in that stuff.
Rejoice not at thine enemy's fall - but don't rush to pick him up either. - Jewish proverb.

 

personate-rain