Author Topic: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior  (Read 2952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 05:28:06 AM »
Tee hee hee  ;D

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 07:59:09 AM »
I hope I am allowed to preserve the two things that happened over in this thread, the things that are discussed here. I don't post this to point the finger at FX, it is just hard to understand what really happened because Beleth moderated the thread to stay on topic and shut down the other thread that was regarded spillover. Now Bunsen had to explain what happened and since FX then started a thread about him being targeted by "fucking trolls" putting his login on the line asking Bunsen to "put up or shut up" I think it's kind of mandatory to outline what happened again. I don't do this to call out FX on his promise to delete his account. If you ask me he can forever roam the "Trollwiese" (German word basically meaning the pastures you put trolls on to forever roam happily and free).

Again I hope this is allowed now here to explain. If this is against the rules I'm sorry. Since I'm new I am learning by doing and note that I did not participate in mud-flinging but rather had fun tracing FXs steps. To me showing what happened might educate others and point out what the forum software does or doesn't allow.

The thread we are talking about is this one:

http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,36206.300.html

The first post that seemed strange to me is this one:

Russia TV (very widely watched around the world) has point blank thrown it down.



     The nuclear media may be trying to not mention any dangers/risks/problems, but the world and the internet is aflame with pointing this out.

As you can see that post now contains an embedded YouTube video. When the post first showed up it didn't.

Before the first edit by FX, this is what the post looked like:

Russia TV (very widely watched around the world) has point blank thrown it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLQ2XhlDeYw&feature=player_embedded

     The nuclear media may be trying to not mention any dangers/risks/problems, but the world and the internet is aflame with pointing this out.

I pointed that out three posts down in that thread. The post showed what seems to be a YouTube link while it actually wasn't one.


Now the argument that started about this is that immediately FX changed the URL to purge the ufohunterorguk.com bit and it didn't show as edited because it was within the edit grace-period. I don't know how long that period is but I must've hit the "Quote" button only a couple of seconds after he posted first, since I was manually refreshing the site instead of waiting for an e-mail notification. I usually read my own posts after I write them because I have this nasty habit of hating to read my comments in a box with scrollbars.

Later on FX went back to embed the YouTube-Video directly so that, after all, the post now shows up as having been edited. That all in all seemed strange to me only because that same video was embedded already by FX two pages earlier (on page 19). Bunsen called FX out on the editing while I didn't notice. At first I didn't even get what Bunsen meant because I was busy reading ufohunterorguk.com to find out what their deal is, copied a couple of images and their mission statement, calling out FX on that, while FX was busy trying to pretend that he has nothing to do with that ufo website. The thread had opened another page at that point for me while I guess Bunsen was still reading on page 21 and witnessed the editing.

(Disclaimer: I edited this a couple of times because I got the timeline wrong).
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 09:26:52 AM by Bash »

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 08:15:27 AM »
Before posting the other controversial posts I'll wait until a mod read my last post and watch a bit of Formula 1 :-)
I don't want to put too much work in this because it might be against TheRules(tm) or what this thread is supposed to be directed at. I don't want to erect a pillory here I just think that finding out what the problem was is kind of hard with the many threads that were opened because of this

(e.g. Belgarath opened this thread http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,36425.0.html to address FX directly after he read the part about the Google Searches that are the next thing I would like to dissect here)

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 01:37:47 PM »
Ok everybody's up and nobody said this was wrong so let me continue my documentation.

Like Bunsen said previously on this post, FX kept posting, which IMHO is normal. Pinballwizards said that the media, contrary to what FX said, was indeed covering the story. FX quotes that and included two links (this is on page 22 of that post).

Since I was again still reading the page and refreshing regularly, I of course clicked that link and found a Google results page that had "Nebraska Nuclear Power Plant" in the search box and NO results. NONE. Which came as quite a surprise.

So I started an investigation about Google search query variables (you know, anything that is starting with an ampersand). It wasn't easy, since searching with Google for Google search query variables is "kind of" a bitch to do. In the end I came up with this:
http://www.google.com/search
?q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants
&hl=en
&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310
&num=10
&lr=
&ft=i
&cr=
&safe=images
&tbs=,qdr:w#q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants
&hl=en
&lr=
&safe=off
&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310
&tbm=nws
&prmd=ivnsum
&source=lnt
&tbs=qdr:h
&sa=X
&ei=hWoDTpq0A-Gz0AGWpJGGDg
&ved=0CBIQpwUoAQ
&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
&fp=fd587d5059cc77d3
&biw=1221
&bih=715

&tbs=,qdr:w#q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants with the comma after the = this part became invalid. I think it's fair to assume it was added manually as well as everything after the # to pretend the search was set to a week. The search engine basically ignores everything in this statement as the & is a lead in to hand over variables to it. Invalid variables are thrown out.
&tbm=nws blocks news results.
&tbs=qdr:h limits the results to those added to the database within the last 60 minutes

This is the complete, not split URL:

http://www.google.com/search?q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs=,qdr:w#q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310&tbm=nws&prmd=ivnsum&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:h&sa=X&ei=hWoDTpq0A-Gz0AGWpJGGDg&ved=0CBIQpwUoAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fd587d5059cc77d3&biw=1221&bih=715

Now the curious thing about this is one thing: I did NOT notice the time limit when I first opened that search results page. The blue horizontal line IMHO wasn't there. But whatever, I have to assume it was there showing the timeframe that was searched, namely the last 60 minutes. That's what &tbs=qdr:h does. The h stands for hour.

Now the "fun" thing about that is this: this variable isn't part of the regular "Advanced search" drop down boxes on Google Germany. To me, that was alarming. We over here only get year, month, week and day as options. On Google.com this is different - you are also allowed to limit your search to the last hour, that's where that option comes from. But the kicker is this: you can overwrite earlier occurring of the &tbs parameter by simply including the parameter later on in the URL again. If it weren't for my 24" monitor, I wouldn't have immediately noticed the double occurring parameter. As you can see in my quote the first one included lengthy bogus information.

You can try it out with this link, which includes EVERYTHING except the second &tbs=qdr:h statement

http://www.google.com/search?q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs=,qdr:w#q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCZ310&tbm=nws&prmd=ivnsum&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=hWoDTpq0A-Gz0AGWpJGGDg&ved=0CBIQpwUoAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fd587d5059cc77d3&biw=1221&bih=715

As you can see, the time frame that you would THINK was included, namely
&tbs=,qdr:w#q=nebraska+nuclear+power+plants
which you would expect sets the time limit to ONE WEEK (w for week) does NOT work. In fact, it doesn't do anything.

At the moment it results in 860 hits. Why? Well that's the kicker here. The result page is excluding NEWS by using
&tbm=nws

That's why at first I simply removed everything after the first ? statement without a single & statement. The result? At the moment roughly 5.7 million (!) hits.

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 01:47:53 PM »
Then FX started this thread

http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,36439.0.html

in Explicit, complaining about trolls and how (for whatever reason) "back in the day" trolling meant something. To be honest I think what he tries there is to use the thing that seemingly "worked with JWaksman", namely that I called JW out on calling me dumb while I was merely disagreeing with him, and twist it to look as if the only way "we trolls" were able to deal with FX's "arguments" by attacking him personally.

And just to underline it, FX said on that thread

Quote
    If I changed anything after the fact, to mislead or in any way attempted to modify those posts to deceive anyone, I will have my account here terminated.  If not, you go bye bye. 

Which in fact, he didn't do. Beleth basically proved that what I said FX did, he did. That he got caught. And on top of everything (Ufo Hunter Org UK, excluding News results from a query that was given as an example how the news media weren't covering the Nebraska Power Plants all the while obfuscating the search timeframe set to one hour by having a second, intentionally wrong variable in there that set the search supposedly to one week) he now piled another thing on, namely accusing "the trolls" (which would be me and Bunsen) of being "asshats", asking for their account, putting his on the line, and then, like he always does, just go back to business of posting link after link while interpreting the sources wrong.

Just to underline this: he said he would have is account TERMINATED.

I am not asking for him to do this. I am just pointing out that he keeps piling on. And that he called me an asshat.

(I have to give him that my iPad made me call him an idiot though, which in the end is still my fault for not proofreading what I wrote. I'm still bitter about that).

Offline Bash

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 02:20:02 PM »
And after putting his account on the line, FX stated this back in the Nebraska NPP thread:

(click to show/hide)

Quickly followed by

(click to show/hide)

Now the fun thing is this: he STILL excludes News, pretending not to know what's wrong about him using those search queries.

Again: after he put his account on the line and asked Bunsen to quit the forums if he couldn't prove the altering of the links.

To me this is schizophrenic. He just does it "because it's Bunsen" when a couple minutes earlier he asked for Bunsens head account.

Offline Green Ideas

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9248
  • ZZZ!!!
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 02:25:43 PM »
Wow. Hexa-posting. Must be a record in a serious thread.

Offline Beleth

  • Administrator Emeritus
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8087
Re: On Moderating Dishonest Behavior
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 02:30:05 PM »
I meant for this thread to be a philosophy discussion, but now that it's turned into a history lesson, I'm going to lock it.
I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet