Author Topic: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.  (Read 225162 times)

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Online bachfiend

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1620 on: December 19, 2019, 02:54:29 PM »
I've never heard of the 23:1, is this something that can be sustained for long periods? Or is it something you do to achieve a goal? The 16:8 sounds like too much of a pain in the ass to me and a small disruption to my schedule would just constantly throw it off. At least with the 5:2 I only have to buckle down 2 days on my eating windows. 23:1 sounds like it might be easier to hold to as well, though I feel like I'd be miserable.  :laugh:
The one nice thing about intermittent fasting though is I can miss a meal on a normal day and not be thrown off or feel sick. It's kind of cool to feel like I have more control over food now than food has over me.

23:1 is once a day eating. 

I thrive on 16/8 and keep the carbs at an average of 100gm. There seems to be an infinite amount of eating schedules to choose from.
I'm pretty clear on what it is, it just sounds like it isn't an easy schedule to sustain over long periods. Especially with weight lifting and swimming in the mix. I don't even do the 5:2 on days I workout.
16:8 seems like it would be okay, except for my life. I have a lot of unpredictability, and sadly a large amount of my career path is social meetups which can be super unpredictable in frequency and timing. It's easier for me to control my schedule for 2 days a week, rather than have to control it for all 7. Though to be honest, I'd rather do the 16:8. I'm just afraid I'd break off of it 3-4 times a week.

It took me many years to get to 23:1, but now that I’ve got there, it’s very easy to keep to, and I’ve been on it for years.  Around 30 years ago, when I was fat, I just dropped breakfast, having a small snack at 10 am, and then I dropped the snack, and just had two meals a day (lunch and dinner), then I dropped lunch, and had a small snack around 3 pm, and finally dropped the afternoon snack, so eventually, after years, finished having just one meal a day. 

Having just one meal a day doesn’t seem to affect my daily activities.  I don’t feel hungry during the day.  I go to a gym around 4 pm and do around two hours of cardio without difficulty, and then I have my one meal of the day after giving my dog her evening walk (and after an evening concert if I have one).  I’m in much the same position as you with your social meetings - if your social meetings are in the evening you could just have your evening meal after it, as I do after evening concerts?

23:1 works very well for me in avoiding temptation.  I don’t eat outside my one meal of the day, and I don’t feel tempted by hunger to indulge in forbidden treats such as calorie heavy cakes.  And actually, I don’t feel hungry when I have my evening meal.  I’m sometimes curious to see if I could go without eating for 2 or 3 days.  People didn’t always have the luxury of eating every day, let alone three or more times a day.

I know I sound obsessive, but I’ve been fat (85+ kg, mainly due to stress, studying for exams, and overeating and under exercising), and now I’m lean (63 kg), and I never want to be fat again, and I’ve found that the best strategy is adopting habits I can keep to consistently for years, including having just one meal a day.  And exercising daily, regardless.  I know from experience that if I drop one of these strategies, I’ll put on weight again.  It’s a battle.  But it’s a battle I’m winning.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1621 on: December 19, 2019, 07:57:25 PM »
I knew a guy who went on a diet that was zero-carbs during 23 hours of the day, and then during one hour he could eat anything he wanted to. He said the diet was working. Then I moved and lost touch with him and nearly everybody I knew back there. So I have no idea if the diet continued to work for him or if he stayed on it.

I eat my main meal around mid-day and a light meal around 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon. I almost never eat breakfast, and when I do I always regret it because I don't feel good if I eat before late morning.

I fasted for five days when there was nothing vegetarian available but I lack the self control to fast much beyond my accustomed meal times if there's suitable food available.
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Online jt512

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1622 on: December 20, 2019, 06:14:32 AM »

Provided you use them in the manner Bachfiend described, they "work" for the purpose that he also described: they provide good estimates of long-term change in body composition. 

Except that mine gave answers that were obviously way too far off to be of much use. How hydrated I was clearly affected the answer to a very large degree. Maybe it would be consistent if my hydration were exactly the same each time I used it. But I have no way to measure that.


Except that it has already has been explained to you what you were doing wrong and what to do to obtain reliable measurements from your bio-impedence scale.  You need to take measurements at the same time every day and average them over a week. Those weekly averages will be reliable, and with them you will be able to track your week-to-week changes in body composition. 

Quote
Calipers are a better measure.


Skin-fold measurements using calipers, when performed by a skilled operator using multiple meaurement points are more accurate and reliable than bio-impedence.  Performing them on yourself, unless you have been formally trained, is essentially worthless.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1623 on: December 20, 2019, 11:37:22 AM »

Provided you use them in the manner Bachfiend described, they "work" for the purpose that he also described: they provide good estimates of long-term change in body composition. 

Except that mine gave answers that were obviously way too far off to be of much use. How hydrated I was clearly affected the answer to a very large degree. Maybe it would be consistent if my hydration were exactly the same each time I used it. But I have no way to measure that.


Except that it has already has been explained to you what you were doing wrong and what to do to obtain reliable measurements from your bio-impedence scale.  You need to take measurements at the same time every day and average them over a week. Those weekly averages will be reliable, and with them you will be able to track your week-to-week changes in body composition. 

Quote
Calipers are a better measure.


Skin-fold measurements using calipers, when performed by a skilled operator using multiple meaurement points are more accurate and reliable than bio-impedence.  Performing them on yourself, unless you have been formally trained, is essentially worthless.

The scale's measurement of body fat really is useless, since it only "sees" your legs. I carry most of my excess fat on my belly, where changes won't affect the foot-to-foot impedance.

But that's okay because I don't need a precise measurement of my body fat. I can tell by looking at my belly if I'm fat or not. And averaging my weight over a week is just as good as averaging my foot-to-foot impedance over a week for tracking fat gain or loss since my muscle mass is not going to change much over time.

Had a good workout yesterday. When I paddle in the big club canoes the ho'okele decides how long we'll paddle between rest breaks, and how long those will be, and the stroker, which is somebody else more often than it's me, determines how vigorously we paddle. But when I go out in Honu Holoholo, a.k.a. the turtle, I determine both the stroke rate and how long we paddle between breaks and how long we rest. Except when we're waiting for a whale to come back up. Yesterday we did two vigorous half-hour-plus paddles and several shorter ones, and then some easier paddling at the end. My muscles are pleasantly sore this morning.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1624 on: December 20, 2019, 03:50:01 PM »

Provided you use them in the manner Bachfiend described, they "work" for the purpose that he also described: they provide good estimates of long-term change in body composition. 

Except that mine gave answers that were obviously way too far off to be of much use. How hydrated I was clearly affected the answer to a very large degree. Maybe it would be consistent if my hydration were exactly the same each time I used it. But I have no way to measure that.


Except that it has already has been explained to you what you were doing wrong and what to do to obtain reliable measurements from your bio-impedence scale.  You need to take measurements at the same time every day and average them over a week. Those weekly averages will be reliable, and with them you will be able to track your week-to-week changes in body composition. 

Quote
Calipers are a better measure.


Skin-fold measurements using calipers, when performed by a skilled operator using multiple meaurement points are more accurate and reliable than bio-impedence.  Performing them on yourself, unless you have been formally trained, is essentially worthless.

The scale's measurement of body fat really is useless, since it only "sees" your legs. I carry most of my excess fat on my belly, where changes won't affect the foot-to-foot impedance.

But that's okay because I don't need a precise measurement of my body fat. I can tell by looking at my belly if I'm fat or not. And averaging my weight over a week is just as good as averaging my foot-to-foot impedance over a week for tracking fat gain or loss since my muscle mass is not going to change much over time.

Had a good workout yesterday. When I paddle in the big club canoes the ho'okele decides how long we'll paddle between rest breaks, and how long those will be, and the stroker, which is somebody else more often than it's me, determines how vigorously we paddle. But when I go out in Honu Holoholo, a.k.a. the turtle, I determine both the stroke rate and how long we paddle between breaks and how long we rest. Except when we're waiting for a whale to come back up. Yesterday we did two vigorous half-hour-plus paddles and several shorter ones, and then some easier paddling at the end. My muscles are pleasantly sore this morning.

Impedance scales’ measurements aren’t ‘useless.’  They’re just of very doubtful accuracy.  I’ve had online arguments with the manufacturers of the impedance scales concerning their accuracy, asking them whether they’ve verified their readings with other more reliable methods (and the answer I eventually got was ‘no.’)  And that their accuracy was plus or minus 3%, confusing accuracy with precision.

If you’ve got a good set of impedance scales, then use them.  If you don’t, then I’d advise you to just regularly use a good set of electronic bathroom scales, which are accurate at measuring and keeping track of your body weight, and using some other estimate of your body fat, including abdominal circumference.

The commercial impedance scales used in fitness centres employ foot and hand sensors so theoretically they should ‘measure’ all the body fat except for the fat above the shoulders (there are some very uncharitable people on this forum who will suggest that that’s where I store most of my body fat, so don’t - I’ve preempted the witty remark), and the rare times I’ve paid for them out of curiosity they’ve given similar albeit not identical measurements to the ones of the scales I use at home.  Readings within 10-15 minutes of each other.

I don’t put much faith in the exact readings.  I take most notice of the body weight, which is accurate, and the week to week variation in body weight and the body fat mass as estimated.  If they’re constant, more or less, I don’t worry.  If they’re increasing, then I know I’m doing something wrong.

But anyway.  If you store most of your body fat around your abdomen, shouldn’t you be worried that that could be visceral fat, which is very unhealthy?

https://www.healthline.com/health/visceral-fat

It probably isn’t.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1625 on: December 20, 2019, 04:25:27 PM »
I don't like electronic scales for the reason mentioned above. I prefer my balance-beam scale. And as you say, waist measurement. And the fact that I store most of my fat on my belly is the reason I work very hard to keep my weight healthy and my cardio fitness up.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1626 on: December 20, 2019, 04:47:44 PM »
I don't like electronic scales for the reason mentioned above. I prefer my balance-beam scale. And as you say, waist measurement. And the fact that I store most of my fat on my belly is the reason I work very hard to keep my weight healthy and my cardio fitness up.

Because electronic scales are convenient?  You don’t have to have ones with body composition.  Simple ones exist, and they’re accurate.

Golly.  I haven’t seen a balance-beam scale for years.  Decades.  The world is going electronic as being more reliable and accurate.  Even my cardiologist (whom I see for ‘athlete’s heart) uses an electronic sphymomanometre (I was bemused when I first visited him and he was still using the old manual method using a stethoscope and listening for the muffling of the pulse for the diastolic pressure measurement, which can be subjective and prone to error).
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1627 on: December 20, 2019, 08:38:05 PM »
I don't like electronic scales for the reason mentioned above. I prefer my balance-beam scale. And as you say, waist measurement. And the fact that I store most of my fat on my belly is the reason I work very hard to keep my weight healthy and my cardio fitness up.

Because electronic scales are convenient?  You don’t have to have ones with body composition.  Simple ones exist, and they’re accurate.

Golly.  I haven’t seen a balance-beam scale for years.  Decades.  The world is going electronic as being more reliable and accurate.  Even my cardiologist (whom I see for ‘athlete’s heart) uses an electronic sphymomanometre (I was bemused when I first visited him and he was still using the old manual method using a stethoscope and listening for the muffling of the pulse for the diastolic pressure measurement, which can be subjective and prone to error).

Not because they're convenient. But because if you get on, then off, then on again, you can see that it wants to settle on a different weight, then abruptly snaps to the weight it just showed you, in order to make you think that it's consistent.

Electronic blood-pressure machines are very unreliable for certain individuals, especially older people and people with high blood pressure (exactly the ones where it matters). I tried three of them. I got readings of the systolic pressure that would sometimes be ten mmHg off. I use a manual sphygmomanometer. The electronic ones have no direct way of determining the systolic and diastolic. They measure the rise and fall of pressure as they lower the pump pressure, and use a proprietary algorithm to calculate systolic and diastolic, and that algorithm differs from one manufacturer to another. And like impedance scales, they have to make various assumptions, which are population averages and so are very accurate for a few individuals, good enough for most individuals, and way off the mark for others. If you only need readings within ten or fifteen mmHg they're okay.
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Online jt512

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1628 on: December 20, 2019, 08:55:21 PM »
I don't like electronic scales for the reason mentioned above. I prefer my balance-beam scale. And as you say, waist measurement. And the fact that I store most of my fat on my belly is the reason I work very hard to keep my weight healthy and my cardio fitness up.

Because electronic scales are convenient?  You don’t have to have ones with body composition.  Simple ones exist, and they’re accurate.

Golly.  I haven’t seen a balance-beam scale for years.  Decades.  The world is going electronic as being more reliable and accurate.  Even my cardiologist (whom I see for ‘athlete’s heart) uses an electronic sphymomanometre (I was bemused when I first visited him and he was still using the old manual method using a stethoscope and listening for the muffling of the pulse for the diastolic pressure measurement, which can be subjective and prone to error).

Not because they're convenient. But because if you get on, then off, then on again, you can see that it wants to settle on a different weight, then abruptly snaps to the weight it just showed you, in order to make you think that it's consistent.

That sounds like nonsense nonsense.


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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1629 on: December 20, 2019, 08:59:59 PM »
I don't like electronic scales for the reason mentioned above. I prefer my balance-beam scale. And as you say, waist measurement. And the fact that I store most of my fat on my belly is the reason I work very hard to keep my weight healthy and my cardio fitness up.

Because electronic scales are convenient?  You don’t have to have ones with body composition.  Simple ones exist, and they’re accurate.

Golly.  I haven’t seen a balance-beam scale for years.  Decades.  The world is going electronic as being more reliable and accurate.  Even my cardiologist (whom I see for ‘athlete’s heart) uses an electronic sphymomanometre (I was bemused when I first visited him and he was still using the old manual method using a stethoscope and listening for the muffling of the pulse for the diastolic pressure measurement, which can be subjective and prone to error).

Not because they're convenient. But because if you get on, then off, then on again, you can see that it wants to settle on a different weight, then abruptly snaps to the weight it just showed you, in order to make you think that it's consistent.

Electronic blood-pressure machines are very unreliable for certain individuals, especially older people and people with high blood pressure (exactly the ones where it matters). I tried three of them. I got readings of the systolic pressure that would sometimes be ten mmHg off. I use a manual sphygmomanometer. The electronic ones have no direct way of determining the systolic and diastolic. They measure the rise and fall of pressure as they lower the pump pressure, and use a proprietary algorithm to calculate systolic and diastolic, and that algorithm differs from one manufacturer to another. And like impedance scales, they have to make various assumptions, which are population averages and so are very accurate for a few individuals, good enough for most individuals, and way off the mark for others. If you only need readings within ten or fifteen mmHg they're okay.

They have to be good scales, not cheap ones.  I’ve just weighed myself 4 times (not my usual time of day) and the scales went immediately to 64.5, 64.5, 64.6 and 64.6 kg, so I think my weight is between 64.5 and 64.6 kg with rounding.  Or perhaps it’s very close to 64.6 kg, and the scale just drops everything after the 1st decimal place.  It’s good enough, and fine for trends over weeks. 

I’ve also weighed myself with a different set of electronic scales from a different manufacturer, and it went immediately to 64.7 kg.

It hardly matters that there’s a possible range over 0.2 kg.  The measurements are more than good enough (and very convenient) for knowing whether body weight is increasing, decreasing or staying the same over weeks.

Blood pressure just now 119/70 (which agrees with the readings my doctor measures with a different machine (and use a different ‘proprietary algorithm’ apparently), heart rate 41 bpm.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 09:07:20 PM by bachfiend »
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Online lonely moa

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1630 on: December 23, 2019, 01:28:22 PM »
I have found that the treadmill is actually good for something.  The support bars on either side can be used for bar dips.  As yet there still isn't a proper dip station in the new gym.  Dips and pull-ups are my warm up.
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Offline 2397

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1631 on: December 25, 2019, 04:28:47 AM »
On the first day of Christmas, my two legs said to me; run, fatty, run. Enough with the carboloading. There's probably enough food in the house to last you another month, anyway. Especially at this rate. Of the things you should be preparing for, starvation isn't it. Cancel energy saving mode.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1632 on: January 07, 2020, 05:34:49 PM »
Too dark too early to go running in the park after work and I dont want to do the 20min round trip to the gym when I finish work late, so ive started using the steep hill I live at the top of to do sprints.
Its 300m long and a 90m climb. 20-30min of hyperventilating and Im straight in my front door and putting the dinner on!

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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1633 on: January 20, 2020, 03:43:38 PM »
Ugh I have battled tendonitis my whole life. It is a pain in the ass. Usually when I lift heavy.

Lift heavy...with your ass?  :o  :P

I had some acute tendinitis in my right elbow some years ago (hurt like a muhfuh) and it acts up occasionally.  Sucks.
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Re: Twitter your random excersize thoughts and workout experiences.
« Reply #1634 on: January 20, 2020, 03:46:15 PM »
Tonight's ride: rain wind bobcat.

Egad, man.
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