Author Topic: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread  (Read 26434 times)

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Offline AQB24712

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #120 on: June 14, 2012, 02:58:07 pm »
Opting in to Explicit has been mentioned several times.  Seems to me, though, that the current opt-out option will do the job just fine.  Forum Member looks over the subforum, says ehh, not for me, and opts out.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.  Surely we're not saying that looking at the Explicit subforum long enough to decide if it's wanted is too much for people to bear? 

Sounds good. I have explicit blocked so the board might look very different to someone who sees all the explicit threads. I know karenX always thought the explicit section was an area particularly unwelcoming of most women.

 :(  Great, now I feel like a bad feminist again for not feeling unwelcome there.  But I know that's my cross-eyed bear.

ETA:  Johnny simul-typed.  I wouldn't mind having the nekkid threads be an opt-in subforum.  "Hey, there's a nekkid subforum you haven't seen yet; you want?" sounds much more straightforward and easily understood than "Hey there's an explicit subforum you haven't seen yet; you want?"  I would interpret the latter as being all nekkid all the time, which I ETA: would not want, and I would be disappointed if I'd missed out on all the fun and interesting stuff in the current Explicit because I thought it was all bits.

Also, totes agreed that putting unspoilered nudity into non-nudity-focused threads is bad form.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 03:03:40 pm by AQB24712 »
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Offline seaotter

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #121 on: June 14, 2012, 03:00:59 pm »
Just makes you an exceptional woman!
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Offline superdave

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #122 on: June 14, 2012, 03:01:25 pm »
I'm really liking the dialouge we have been having about this.  I am actually optimistic that good will come from these conversations. 
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Offline Drunken Idaho

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #123 on: June 14, 2012, 03:03:47 pm »
Opting in to Explicit has been mentioned several times.  Seems to me, though, that the current opt-out option will do the job just fine.  Forum Member looks over the subforum, says ehh, not for me, and opts out.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.  Surely we're not saying that looking at the Explicit subforum long enough to decide if it's wanted is too much for people to bear? 

Exactly. Nobody has to go in explicit if hey don't want to, and it's very clearly marked. We're talking about people being put off by the mere presence of nudity on the boards--and I don't think we should lift a finger to appease those folks.

Quote
Sounds good. I have explicit blocked so the board might look very different to someone who sees all the explicit threads. I know karenX always thought the explicit section was an area particularly unwelcoming of most women.

 :(  Great, now I feel like a bad feminist again for not feeling unwelcome there.  But I know that's my cross-eyed bear.

Bullshit. I think that saying "nudity might be off-putting to women" is sexist in itself. What about men who find it off-putting, or women like the lovely AQB who don't care? Unless somebody wants to make the case that nudity=sexism, we're not even talking about sexism here--we're talking about deleting nudity to avoid offending a select few who dislike its presence. Sucks to that!
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Offline seaotter

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #124 on: June 14, 2012, 03:04:21 pm »
How well do new folks know how to customize their experience?
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Offline teethering

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #125 on: June 14, 2012, 03:05:24 pm »
I'd rather just do away with erotica on our forums entirely tbh.

Offline Drunken Idaho

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #126 on: June 14, 2012, 03:05:58 pm »
I'd rather just do away with erotica on our forums entirely tbh.

Why?
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Offline seaotter

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #127 on: June 14, 2012, 03:07:04 pm »
Well, again anecdote alert it is a complaint that has been raised in the past by women, and been a suggestion by women to make this a more welcoming place. It may well be sexist.
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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #128 on: June 14, 2012, 03:10:26 pm »
Does porn really fit in here? The explicit forums are at the bottom in terms of views, and no nudity makes it into the top ten in terms of posts.

We already limit the porn to playboy style.
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Offline TheIrreverend

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #129 on: June 14, 2012, 03:14:28 pm »
I'm with EL on the Explicit section - I understand the desire to have a minimally moderated place where thinking goes to die, but I think perhaps the free speech zone-esque thinking might have gone a little overboard re: the porn threads.

Hey, I get it.  People like porn.  That's totally cool.  The question is, is a forum whose mission statement is to be a place where intelligent people come to have rational discussions about almost any topic really a place where you want to host such content?  I feel that perhaps it sends a mixed message.

As to the opt-in/out/segregate crowd - I'm not sure that addresses the problem.  I raised the analogy in the chat previously; if Nestle had a section of their corporate website dedicated to pornography, it wouldn't matter how many disclaimers they had or how many hoops you had to jump through to get access to it their brand would be indelibly attached to the content contained therein.  I think perhaps the same contagion effect applies here.  There are literally thousands of places on the Internet where you can go to get your porn fix - is sguforums.com really providing any service by having this content here?

In fact, all of these arguments are starting from the premise that Explicit should exist, a mode of thinking I guess I was caught up in due to that fact that it does exist.  Let's reverse that premise; why should Explicit exist?  My feeling is that many threads in there could just as easily be in General Discussion (YLYL, Bitching, the epic OkC thread, etc.) without any real issue, and the threads which "need" to be in Explicit perhaps don't really belong on here at all.

Now, lest I be painted as a prude, I'm not.  I have absolutely no problem with an intellectual, rational discussion which involves pornography or naked people or genitals or whatever.  In such threads, a picture might be posted as illustrative without crossing the line (the famous Scorpions album cover, for example).  However, the Boobs thread and its ilk serve as nothing more than a collection of our masturbatory fantasies.  There is a time (after work) and a place (Reddit) for that kind of thing, but I'm not sure this is either.

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Offline DRmeg378

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #130 on: June 14, 2012, 03:16:26 pm »
AJR, I'll give you my take. It's not everyone's take, not every woman's take, just mine.

Those threads are not just a series of photos. They are a series of photos of gorgeous women which are very often rated/commented on by the posters, sometimes judged extremely harshly. One of the things feminism critiques about our society is that women are constantly expected to be beautiful and judged on that. It's not relevant whether the women themselves want to feel beautiful, or want to be complimented, because that is itself part of the problem. So if you, like me, think this is a valid critique of society at large, and then you go into a forum that's meant to be a discussion of ideas and see a completely unnecessary thread with photos of beautiful women who are judged in what looks to me a horribly demeaning and depersonalizing way, then that is very off-putting. Personally, I find the commentary to be the most disgusting part of those threads.

Some feminists, on the other hand, think that all porn is objectifying and demeaning, and again, that the women who willingly participate in it are responding to a cultural structure that their feminism criticizes. Those feminists will find the very existence of the threads disgusting.

Honestly, if there had never been any erotic content in Explicit, who would have felt the loss? I find it hard to see a positive reason that justifies the existence of those threads.
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Offline Drunken Idaho

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #131 on: June 14, 2012, 03:19:03 pm »
Y'all keep trying to turn this around, but my point stands:

You should need a good reason to increase censorship. Can ANYBODY come up with a good reason to increase censorship re: naked people in the explicit section? I know that it's not necessary, I'm not saying it is--I'm asking why we should ban it, if you think we should.

Well, again anecdote alert it is a complaint that has been raised in the past by women, and been a suggestion by women to make this a more welcoming place. It may well be sexist.

Just getting to personal opinions here, but I'm happier in a forum that lacks people who feel unwelcome simply because pictures of naked people exist in a plainly-marked place that they never have to click on.

If you want to make the case that naked pictures = sexism, go for it.
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Offline Belgarath

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #132 on: June 14, 2012, 03:22:43 pm »
I find zero need for the 'porn' parts of explicit.  Certainly I go look occasionally, but if it weren't there I'd find somewhere else to look.  There are other places to go look.


ETA:  I don't view it as 'censorship'  I view it as 'not needed.'

In other words, I vew it as off topic of the entire board.  Why don't you insist on having an 'explicit' section with naked folks on each and every single message board of ANY topic?

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #133 on: June 14, 2012, 03:23:03 pm »
TheIrreverend, I think there needs to be an explicit section (though perhaps under a new moniker) because as I said earlier, it provides a place to vent and otherwise discuss things you don't want to linger on a message board for eternity.  Those are other benefits of having it, but like Meg just said I too don't see any real benefit to having boob and ass (and the like) threads anywhere on our forums.  I've looked at them, participated in them, and I even think I started one once, but if it's a question of the guys around here being able to share pictures of women they think are hot versus making most women uncomfortable then it's hardly one that deserves much thought.

The internet is mostly filled with porn anyway and if it's really important to some to discuss it with each other, then there are private messages and other forums to enable that.

Offline Belgarath

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Re: Always Moving Forward: The Discussion Thread
« Reply #134 on: June 14, 2012, 03:25:15 pm »

The internet is mostly filled with porn anyway and if it's really important to some to discuss it with each other, then there are private messages and other forums to enable that.

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