Author Topic: LCHF and healthy eating  (Read 141988 times)

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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1770 on: July 01, 2019, 11:10:02 AM »

Your definition of clinical significance is little more than minimal important difference, which is subjective, and may also include the placebo effect:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_important_difference

Those are basically synonyms.  Placebo effect has nothing to do with the subject.

They are related but not synonyms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_significance


If you want to know what these terms actually mean, I suggest you read the review article I linked to. 
 
Edit: That wikipedia article is bizarre, if not flat-out wrong. You should ignore it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:13:58 PM by jt512 »
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1771 on: July 01, 2019, 01:45:24 PM »
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2733424
Association of Sugary Beverage Consumption With Mortality Risk in US Adults: A Secondary Analysis of Data From the REGARDS Study

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Findings  In this cohort study of 13 440 black and white adults 45 years and older observed for a mean of 6.0 years, each additional 12-oz serving/d of sugary beverages was associated with an 11% higher all-cause mortality risk, and each additional 12-oz serving/d of fruit juice was associated with a 24% higher all-cause mortality risk. Similar associations were not observed for sugary beverage consumption and coronary heart disease mortality.



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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1772 on: July 02, 2019, 05:35:44 AM »
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2733424
Association of Sugary Beverage Consumption With Mortality Risk in US Adults: A Secondary Analysis of Data From the REGARDS Study

Quote
Findings  In this cohort study of 13 440 black and white adults 45 years and older observed for a mean of 6.0 years, each additional 12-oz serving/d of sugary beverages was associated with an 11% higher all-cause mortality risk, and each additional 12-oz serving/d of fruit juice was associated with a 24% higher all-cause mortality risk. Similar associations were not observed for sugary beverage consumption and coronary heart disease mortality.



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I don’t think anyone (except for the sugar marketing lobby) would disagree with the general conclusions of this study (the exact details might be not exactly correct, but in general it’s correct).

No one disagrees that excessive simple sugars are a risk factor.  And that fruit juice is as bad as sugared soft drinks.  The disagreement would come in the argument as to what is ‘excessive.’  The general recommendation is that simple sugars should be restricted to less than 10% of calories.  The ketogenic crowd would regard that as far too much.
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1773 on: July 06, 2019, 02:50:35 PM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1774 on: July 06, 2019, 03:05:29 PM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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So why didn’t you read it first?  Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, ok therapeutic strategy with type 2 diabetes, medication resistant epilepsy.  Maybe for non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.

My opinion - perfectly acceptable diet, along with many other possible diets.
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LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1775 on: July 06, 2019, 03:35:20 PM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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So why didn’t you read it first?  Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, ok therapeutic strategy with type 2 diabetes, medication resistant epilepsy.  Maybe for non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.

I just saw it and was eager to share.

It’s also effective for metabolic syndrome and various forms of epilepsy. No need to restrict it to medication resistant epilepsy since every epilepsy medication has serious and common side effects.

I’ve Read it now and it’s pretty good.

Quote
My opinion - perfectly acceptable diet, along with many other possible diets.

Except other diets are not effective therapies for any of these conditions.




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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1776 on: July 06, 2019, 03:47:43 PM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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So why didn’t you read it first?  Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, ok therapeutic strategy with type 2 diabetes, medication resistant epilepsy.  Maybe for non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.

I just saw it and was eager to share.

It’s also effective for metabolic syndrome and various forms of epilepsy. No need to restrict it to medication resistant epilepsy since every epilepsy medication has serious and common side effects.

I’ve Read it now and it’s pretty good.

Quote
My opinion - perfectly acceptable diet, along with many other possible diets.

Except other diets are not effective therapies for any of these conditions.




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Well, if you don’t have epilepsy or type 2 diabetes, then many other possible diets may be completely suitable for you, and possibly less onerous and more practicable.
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1777 on: July 06, 2019, 06:35:33 PM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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So why didn’t you read it first?  Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, ok therapeutic strategy with type 2 diabetes, medication resistant epilepsy.  Maybe for non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.

I just saw it and was eager to share.

It’s also effective for metabolic syndrome and various forms of epilepsy. No need to restrict it to medication resistant epilepsy since every epilepsy medication has serious and common side effects.

I’ve Read it now and it’s pretty good.

Quote
My opinion - perfectly acceptable diet, along with many other possible diets.

Except other diets are not effective therapies for any of these conditions.


Well, if you don’t have epilepsy or type 2 diabetes, then many other possible diets may be completely suitable for you, and possibly less onerous and more practicable.

Well, if you had actually read the link you might have learned that there are other serious conditions that improve on LCHF diets that don't improve on other diets, including metabolic syndrome and IBS. And some have a mixed bag (gout for example worsens when one starts a LCHF diet then improves once fat adaptation occurs)
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1778 on: July 07, 2019, 07:22:12 AM »
https://www.lowcarbusa.org/standard-of-care/clinical-guidelines/

I haven’t read this yet but I knew they were working on it and who is involved.


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So why didn’t you read it first?  Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, ok therapeutic strategy with type 2 diabetes, medication resistant epilepsy.  Maybe for non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.

I just saw it and was eager to share.

It’s also effective for metabolic syndrome and various forms of epilepsy. No need to restrict it to medication resistant epilepsy since every epilepsy medication has serious and common side effects.

I’ve Read it now and it’s pretty good.

Quote
My opinion - perfectly acceptable diet, along with many other possible diets.

Except other diets are not effective therapies for any of these conditions.


Well, if you don’t have epilepsy or type 2 diabetes, then many other possible diets may be completely suitable for you, and possibly less onerous and more practicable.

Well, if you had actually read the link you might have learned that there are other serious conditions that improve on LCHF diets that don't improve on other diets, including metabolic syndrome and IBS. And some have a mixed bag (gout for example worsens when one starts a LCHF diet then improves once fat adaptation occurs)

Well, metabolic syndrome is a mixed bag which includes obesity, diabetes, fatty liver.  The point is, if you don’t have one of the conditions purportedly improved by a ketogenic diet (and sometimes the placebo effect can’t be excluded), other diets are just as good.
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Offline gmalivuk

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1779 on: July 07, 2019, 08:56:00 AM »
But why make that point in response to a study that was looking at specific conditions? Would you also point out that vitamin D fortification isn't helpful for people who get plenty of sunlight?
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1781 on: July 07, 2019, 03:50:53 PM »
The point is, if you don’t have one of the conditions purportedly improved by a ketogenic diet (and sometimes the placebo effect can’t be excluded), other diets are just as good.

Right the clinical guidelines for the therapeutic use of the LCHF diet don’t apply if you don’t have one the conditions it’s found to be therapeutic for.





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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1782 on: July 07, 2019, 05:42:56 PM »
But why make that point in response to a study that was looking at specific conditions? Would you also point out that vitamin D fortification isn't helpful for people who get plenty of sunlight?

Well, it’s not a study.  It’s a grab bag of conditions for which proselytizers of the ketogenic diet feel there’s evidence that their diet might be useful.  For some of the conditions, there’s good evidence that it’s useful, such as with epilepsy and type 2 diabetes.  For other conditions, there’s very little evidence, amounting little more than anecdotes.

If you have one of the conditions listed, and nothing else seems to work, it might be reasonable to try the ketogenic diet (although the placebo effect can’t be excluded).

If you don’t have one of the conditions listed, then there’s no reason for adopting the ketogenic diet for therapeutic reasons, in the same way that it’s not necessary to take vitamin D supplements (which costs money, and may have harmful side effects) if you’re not vitamin D deficient.
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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1783 on: July 09, 2019, 11:17:30 PM »
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/108/2/266/5067923
A randomized controlled-feeding trial based on the Dietary Guidelines for Americans on cardiometabolic health indexes

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The consumption of a DGA dietary pattern for 8 wk without weight loss reduced systolic blood pressure. There were no differences between the DGA and TAD diets in fasting insulin, glucose, indexes of insulin resistance, or fasting lipids.


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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1784 on: July 09, 2019, 11:39:17 PM »
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/108/2/266/5067923
A randomized controlled-feeding trial based on the Dietary Guidelines for Americans on cardiometabolic health indexes

Quote

The consumption of a DGA dietary pattern for 8 wk without weight loss reduced systolic blood pressure. There were no differences between the DGA and TAD diets in fasting insulin, glucose, indexes of insulin resistance, or fasting lipids.


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You’re well and truly off topic.  This has nothing to do with low carbohydrate/high fat diets.  And what point are you trying to make?  The women were fat, which is a major risk factor, and the trial diets didn’t do anything to their body weights.  If a low carbohydrate/high fat diet had been included, it probably would have shown the same non-impressive results.
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