Author Topic: LCHF and healthy eating  (Read 163031 times)

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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2265 on: January 23, 2020, 01:35:05 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

Dietary assessment was not by FFQ (there's actually no such thing as an MB-FFQ), ...

You may not like the term "Memory Based -Food Frequency Questionnaire" but it is a thing, it does appear in the peer reviewed literature and it is a good and accurate description of the tool used to gather dietary information for these epidemiological studies.

It is used by a crusading ignoramus, whom you have cited, and his co-authors.  FFQs are not "memory based" (unlike 24 recalls).  And anyone else using the term (which is, like, you alone) is just demonstrating their own bias.

And to repeat, the NHANES study you cited above did not even use a FFQ.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 02:43:18 am by jt512 »
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2266 on: January 23, 2020, 02:33:42 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?  For which you have absolutely no evidence that it’s either healthy or safe in persons of all sizes and shapes including the lean with regard to long term health and mortality, in order to justify your persistent quasi-religious ideological proselytising of it.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2267 on: January 23, 2020, 04:20:50 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?
I did not cite it. I linked to it.

Don’t want to be accused of cherry pickin’




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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2268 on: January 23, 2020, 04:21:10 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?  For which you have absolutely no evidence that it’s either healthy or safe in persons of all sizes and shapes including the lean with regard to long term health and mortality, in order to justify your persistent quasi-religious ideological proselytising of it.


For that matter, CS, how can you simultaneously claim that the study is "crap" and that the study "counters" any previous finding?  Pick a lane.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2269 on: January 23, 2020, 04:24:04 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?  For which you have absolutely no evidence that it’s either healthy or safe in persons of all sizes and shapes including the lean with regard to long term health and mortality, in order to justify your persistent quasi-religious ideological proselytising of it.


For that matter, CS, how can you simultaneously claim that the study is "crap" and that the study "counters" any previous finding?  Pick a lane.

They can both be true.

The fact that they reach different conclusions working with the same data in some areas supports the crappiness claim.


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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2270 on: January 23, 2020, 04:32:40 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?  For which you have absolutely no evidence that it’s either healthy or safe in persons of all sizes and shapes including the lean with regard to long term health and mortality, in order to justify your persistent quasi-religious ideological proselytising of it.


For that matter, CS, how can you simultaneously claim that the study is "crap" and that the study "counters" any previous finding?  Pick a lane.

They can both be true.

The fact that they reach different conclusions working with the same data in some areas supports the crappiness claim.


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Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term.  But if the study's methodology is invalid, then its results are invalid, and thus they are not useful for anything, and thus they cannot counter anything.  For example, the ecologic study you posted the other day uses a method that is not valid for assessing relationships between individual-level exposures and outcomes; hence, any conclusions it draws about such relationships are invalid and are not evidence for or against anything, including previous findings.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 02:46:12 am by jt512 »
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2271 on: January 23, 2020, 04:41:43 pm »
OK, this is crap. It's the same kind of epidemiological study, based on MB-FFQ.

Further, the lowest consumption of carbs observed is 37%, which is barely carb restricted.

But it does counter the "u-shaped curve" claims made from similar studies.

I am not using it to support any LCHF diet claims.

Association of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets With Mortality Among US Adults | Lifestyle Behaviors | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

Quote
In this cohort study of 37 233 US adults 20 years or older, overall low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets were not associated with total mortality, but a healthy low-carbohydrate diet (lower amounts of low-quality carbohydrates and higher amounts of plant protein and unsaturated fat) and a healthy low-fat diet (lower amounts of saturated fat and higher amounts of high-quality carbohydrates and plant protein) were associated with lower total mortality.

So why are you citing it if it has nothing to do with your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet?
I did not cite it. I linked to it.

Don’t want to be accused of cherry pickin’




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Yes, you did cite it.  You included a quote from it, which claimed that low carbohydrate and low fat diets are both not associated with increased mortality, just ‘bad’ fats and ‘bad’ carbohydrates.

There’s nothing in it contradicting the dietary guidelines’ recommendations of avoiding excessive simple sugars, and excessive saturated and trans- fats.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2272 on: January 23, 2020, 04:46:11 pm »

Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term. 

OK, you're right about that. Confirmed by a pubmed search, it's not used in peer review literature in this context. (But, to my surprise, it is used in other contexts).



crap - PubMed - NCBI


Quote
Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 107684
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Offline gmalivuk

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2273 on: January 23, 2020, 05:07:06 pm »
Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term. 

OK, you're right about that. Confirmed by a pubmed search, it's not used in peer review literature in this context. (But, to my surprise, it is used in other contexts).



crap - PubMed - NCBI


Quote
Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 107684
Some of those are about a gene known as CRAP, and the rest seem to be the search system looking for synonyms like "feces".
Large data of text  or Mediumtext or Longtext

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2274 on: January 23, 2020, 05:14:53 pm »
Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term. 

OK, you're right about that. Confirmed by a pubmed search, it's not used in peer review literature in this context. (But, to my surprise, it is used in other contexts).



crap - PubMed - NCBI


Quote
Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 107684
Some of those are about a gene known as CRAP, and the rest seem to be the search system looking for synonyms like "feces".
Thanks.

You looked a little more closely than I did.


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Offline bachfiend

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2275 on: January 23, 2020, 05:31:08 pm »

Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term. 

OK, you're right about that. Confirmed by a pubmed search, it's not used in peer review literature in this context. (But, to my surprise, it is used in other contexts).



crap - PubMed - NCBI


Quote
Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 107684

When I was in medical school at university in the ‘70s I regretted that the terminology continuous residual airway pressure was changed to continuous positive airway pressure.  I preferred the abbreviation for the former over the latter, because it just rolls off the tongue better.
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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2276 on: January 24, 2020, 02:55:13 am »

Well, "crap" isn't exactly a rigorous term. 

OK, you're right about that. Confirmed by a pubmed search, it's not used in peer review literature in this context. (But, to my surprise, it is used in other contexts).



crap - PubMed - NCBI


Quote
Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 107684

When I was in medical school at university in the ‘70s I regretted that the terminology continuous residual airway pressure was changed to continuous positive airway pressure.  I preferred the abbreviation for the former over the latter, because it just rolls off the tongue better.


Unfortunately, some researchers have no sense of humor.  But it's a load of crap that none do.  Consider this, for instance.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2277 on: January 24, 2020, 02:58:15 am »
Now that shit is funny!
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Offline jt512

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #2278 on: January 24, 2020, 02:59:05 am »
Now that shit is funny!


I think you meant that "crap."
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