Author Topic: LCHF and healthy eating  (Read 162387 times)

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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #360 on: September 15, 2016, 01:51:34 PM »
Let's say I figure out that my BG does go up in that scenario.  I have an insulin pump and can easily deal with that.  Is it really the amount of carbs that make this diet work, or is it the amount of insulin?  Being able to exactly track the amount of insulin I use could be very helpful here.  I've had several tests over the years that show that my body produces exactly zero insulin.

For non-diabetics, what makes the diet work is moderate blood glucose; moderate insulin; moderate ketone production (nutritional ketosis).

For diabetics consistently moderate blood glucose should lead to less requirement for insulin and moderate ketone production (nutritional ketosis, well short of ketoacidosis).

Do you test for ketones?
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #361 on: September 15, 2016, 02:51:33 PM »
Not yet.  I haven't started the diet yet.  I have an appointment next Friday with my endocrinologist and nutritionist.  I'm asking questions here so I know enough to have an intelligent conversation with them, and to evaluate whether they actually know what they are talking about or not.  This health care is through the VA in the USA, so the staff could be anywhere from incompetent to amazing.
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #362 on: September 26, 2016, 04:06:32 PM »
Both my endocrinologist and my dietician say that I can't go on a ketogenic diet as a Type 1 diabetic.  The risk of ketoacidosis is too high.  As a type 1 diabetic, I'm supposed to be testing my ketones whenever my sugar goes high because of said risk.  That was news to me, so she's sending me those pee sticks that detect ketones.

I have a more detailed meeting with my nutritionist on Wednesday to see what she has to say about eating in a way that doesn't make me hungry all the time, but does not put me in ketosis.

I still bought a lot of goo LC foods this weekend.  My favorite so far is broccoli with melted cheese.  I can't wait to get home and have more.  Cheese sticks wrapped in salami are also delicious.  I'm looking forward to eating a cheeseburger with romaine lettuce instead of a bun.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #363 on: September 26, 2016, 04:19:41 PM »
Sorry for not scrolling back through the thread, but why are you so keen to get on the diet?
The idea of being less hungry or just because it looks tasty or something else?
Its good that you are taking your medical advisors seriously.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #364 on: September 26, 2016, 04:29:44 PM »
My current lifestyle is to eat simple carbs, which makes me hungry and sleepy, so I literally eat all day.  I want an eating lifestyle that doesn't make me hungry all the time.  I thought the LCHF diet looked promising at least for a while because I can eat as much as I want, and if it does control appetite, I could probably stick to it for at least a while.  I'm a little worried that whatever other diet my nutritionist gives me will be like torture all the time because all I will be able to think about all day is my next allowed meal.
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Offline Karyn

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #365 on: September 26, 2016, 04:50:52 PM »
Both my endocrinologist and my dietician say that I can't go on a ketogenic diet as a Type 1 diabetic.  The risk of ketoacidosis is too high.  As a type 1 diabetic, I'm supposed to be testing my ketones whenever my sugar goes high because of said risk.  That was news to me, so she's sending me those pee sticks that detect ketones.

In the end, I really don't know much about this but I've seen enough to know that this is a common misconception.  Here's an article that tells you why.  Perhaps the two that actually know what they are talking about can give you better details.  There are a lot of Type 1 diabetics on HFLC (check out the /r/keto on reddit), including my dad, who was prediabetic in the late 70's, and has been controlling his diabetes with a HFLC diet since then.

http://ketopia.com/ketosis-fear-uncertainty-and-doubt/

edit:  Oh, sorry, I got type 1 and type 2 mixed up.  I think this article confirms what your doctors are saying.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 04:53:27 PM by Karyn »

Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #366 on: September 26, 2016, 04:56:48 PM »
There are some actual studies linked there but I find the huge amount of references to actual books to be a bit less encouraging. Bearing in mind of course the built in bias of the actual sites name.
I dont know much either and Im not saying you are wrong, but Id be reluctant see anyone discard their doctors advice on that.
Im sure there are other, more convincing sources (and Im not qualified to evaluate the actual quoted studies) so Im only stating my impression of that particular link.

Offline Karyn

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #367 on: September 26, 2016, 05:04:09 PM »
There are some actual studies linked there but I find the huge amount of references to actual books to be a bit less encouraging. Bearing in mind of course the built in bias of the actual sites name.
I dont know much either and Im not saying you are wrong, but Id be reluctant see anyone discard their doctors advice on that.
Im sure there are other, more convincing sources (and Im not qualified to evaluate the actual quoted studies) so Im only stating my impression of that particular link.

HB, you may have missed the edit where I said that article actually confirms what his doctors are saying about, specifically, type 1 diabetes.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #368 on: September 26, 2016, 05:24:46 PM »
There are some actual studies linked there but I find the huge amount of references to actual books to be a bit less encouraging. Bearing in mind of course the built in bias of the actual sites name.
I dont know much either and Im not saying you are wrong, but Id be reluctant see anyone discard their doctors advice on that.
Im sure there are other, more convincing sources (and Im not qualified to evaluate the actual quoted studies) so Im only stating my impression of that particular link.

HB, you may have missed the edit where I said that article actually confirms what his doctors are saying about, specifically, type 1 diabetes.

Yeah, its a stupid naming convention.  In my software programming job, they wouldn't let me name something generic like "Type 1".  It should be named something that implies that it is the type where I don't make insulin vs the type where I'm just resistant to the insulin I do make.  Maybe "Insulinless Diabetes".  I'm a naming pro.  True story.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #369 on: September 26, 2016, 05:33:48 PM »
There are some actual studies linked there but I find the huge amount of references to actual books to be a bit less encouraging. Bearing in mind of course the built in bias of the actual sites name.
I dont know much either and Im not saying you are wrong, but Id be reluctant see anyone discard their doctors advice on that.
Im sure there are other, more convincing sources (and Im not qualified to evaluate the actual quoted studies) so Im only stating my impression of that particular link.

HB, you may have missed the edit where I said that article actually confirms what his doctors are saying about, specifically, type 1 diabetes.

Yeah, its a stupid naming convention.  In my software programming job, they wouldn't let me name something generic like "Type 1".  It should be named something that implies that it is the type where I don't make insulin vs the type where I'm just resistant to the insulin I do make.  Maybe "Insulinless Diabetes".  I'm a naming pro.  True story.

The naming convention didn't start out that way.  There was Diabetes. Then there was an extremely rare condition that they used to call Adult Onset Diabetes. But that was confusing because some AODs were what  we now call call Type 1 (damage to the pancreas, preventing insulin secretion) and some were what we now call Type 2 (pancreas produces insulin but the body does not respond).

Maybe not the best.

FWIW, there are a number of doctors who support and encourage Type I diabetics to go on LCHF diets, but they do need to carefully monitor their serum ketones. If you don't have a doctor who will support you in this, then you should find one who will, and if you can't then maybe it's not for you. :(
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 06:10:30 PM by estockly »
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I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #370 on: September 26, 2016, 05:34:25 PM »
There are some actual studies linked there but I find the huge amount of references to actual books to be a bit less encouraging. Bearing in mind of course the built in bias of the actual sites name.
I dont know much either and Im not saying you are wrong, but Id be reluctant see anyone discard their doctors advice on that.
Im sure there are other, more convincing sources (and Im not qualified to evaluate the actual quoted studies) so Im only stating my impression of that particular link.

HB, you may have missed the edit where I said that article actually confirms what his doctors are saying about, specifically, type 1 diabetes.
Ah! We must have cross posted. I didnt read for content, I was purely looking at links as a first pass.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #371 on: September 28, 2016, 08:12:33 PM »
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/mobile/article.aspx?articleid=2564564#.V-vnUiD_03o.facebook

Quote
Beginning in the 1970s, the US government and major professional nutrition organizations recommended that individuals in the United States eat a low-fat/high-carbohydrate diet, launching arguably the largest public health experiment in history. Throughout the ensuing 40 years, the prevalence of obesity and diabetes increased several-fold, even as the proportion of fat in the US diet decreased by 25%. Recognizing new evidence that consumption of processed carbohydrates—white bread, white rice, chips, crackers, cookies, and sugary drinks—but not total fat has contributed importantly to these epidemics, the 2015 USDA Dietary Guidelines for Americans essentially eliminated the upper limit on dietary fat intake.2 However, a comprehensive examination of this massive public health failure has not been conducted. Consequently, significant harms persist, with the low-fat diet remaining entrenched in public consciousness and food policy. In addition, critical scientific questions have been muddled
.


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Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #372 on: September 29, 2016, 09:51:29 AM »
I spoke with my nutritionist yesterday, and she recommend I stop eating 15 snacks per day and eat 3 meals and two snacks.  The three meals would consist of an average of 50 carbs each, and I don't remember how many carbs can be in the first snack.  The second snack would be zero carbs.  I'm supposed to have the following servings throughout the day:  6 starches, 2 fruits, 2 veggies, 1 dairy (a greek yogurt which I love), and 12 oz of protein.

My usual diet is more like 15 starches, 1 fruit, 1 veggie, and 12 oz of protein, so if I can stick to it, I think I will be better for me.

She said that the trick is to realize that it is the serotonin release I get from eating crap that makes me want more food, not actually being hungry.  She says to find something else that will meet the serotonin craving instead of food, because just ignoring it probably won't work.  I don't know what that's supposed to be, but I guess I'll try it.  Today is Day One, but it started out like crap at 2:30am went my sugar went low and I crammed my face with Fruity Pebbles, a popsicle, and some grape juice.  So Day One officially started at 8am when I woke up.  So say we all.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #373 on: September 29, 2016, 12:49:11 PM »


She said that the trick is to realize that it is the serotonin release I get from eating crap that makes me want more food, not actually being hungry. 

Not scientific and not supported by evidence. But then nutritionists aren't scientists and the field is not evidence based.
Quote
She says to find something else that will meet the serotonin craving instead of food, because just ignoring it probably won't work.


Again, not scientific and not supported by evidence.

Quote
I don't know what that's supposed to be, but I guess I'll try it. 

Yoga? Astrology? Heroin?


Quote
Today is Day One, but it started out like crap at 2:30am went my sugar went low and I crammed my face with Fruity Pebbles, a popsicle, and some grape juice.  So Day One officially started at 8am when I woke up.  So say we all.


Seems like complex carbs at night (starchy veggies) which take longer to raise glucose, but keep raising glucose for a longer period, might help avoid LBG during the night.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 12:52:09 PM by estockly »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #374 on: September 29, 2016, 05:33:56 PM »


She said that the trick is to realize that it is the serotonin release I get from eating crap that makes me want more food, not actually being hungry. 

Not scientific and not supported by evidence. But then nutritionists aren't scientists and the field is not evidence based.
Quote
She says to find something else that will meet the serotonin craving instead of food, because just ignoring it probably won't work.


Again, not scientific and not supported by evidence.

Quote
I don't know what that's supposed to be, but I guess I'll try it. 

Yoga? Astrology? Heroin?


Quote
Today is Day One, but it started out like crap at 2:30am went my sugar went low and I crammed my face with Fruity Pebbles, a popsicle, and some grape juice.  So Day One officially started at 8am when I woke up.  So say we all.


Seems like complex carbs at night (starchy veggies) which take longer to raise glucose, but keep raising glucose for a longer period, might help avoid LBG during the night.

Well, her point about me not actually being hungry but wanting food anyway is accurate, though her reason may not be confirmed.  I know that I want to eat all the time, but I sure shouldn't be hungry based on what I eat.

Your recommendation about complex carbs at night is good, but the issue wasn't what I ate the night before, it was how much insulin I gave myself to correct for a high blood glucose.  Too much, apparently.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor