Author Topic: LCHF and healthy eating  (Read 162359 times)

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Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #525 on: January 18, 2018, 11:07:49 AM »
I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic in 2009.

Based on the caveats you introduced the thread with you probably don’t want to hear from me on this, but I wonder if you started a thread on using acupuncture or homeopathy and said you didn’t want to hear opposing views would that be any different?





Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management: Critical review and evidence base - Nutrition

Quote
The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines.

The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs.

Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1.

They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.

This link is a few years old. The described treatment is gaining greater acceptance. The only treatment that works as well is bariatric surgery.  All other dietary treatments are used to manage the disease, not reverse it.

Best of luck to you.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 12:26:25 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #526 on: January 18, 2018, 06:21:21 PM »
I have never counted carbs before - don't even know what number I should be aiming for; I figured if I stayed away from starchy stuff I'd be OK.  Here's what my app shows:


That dish has more carbs in a single serving than I would have in a week.

Quote
Phone interview tomorrow.

With whom? (just curious)

There are two basic approaches to counting carbs.
The simplest is just count the number of grams of Total Carbs

Atkins uses "Net Carbs" which means you take the total grams of carbs and subtract the grams of fiber and sugar alcohols. All those are included in the nutrition label.

(I started on Atkins, and switched to the stricter "Total Carbs.")

If you're using a LCHF Keto diet to reverse T2 diabetes you want total carbs below 20 per day to start. Once you're fat adapted you can increase to as high as 50, if you want, or switch to Net Carbs. But none of those (beyond trace amounts) should come from sugar (sucrose / HFCS; lactose; etc.); grains (flours, breads, pastries, pastas, etc.) or starchy foods (potatoes; rice; etc.); fruits.

The carbs should come from green veggies; salads.

The up-side is you can eat all the fats; meats; bacon and butter you want.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:26:40 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #527 on: January 19, 2018, 12:39:11 PM »
This is a very good summation of the way the LCHF diet is becoming more acceptable in the mainstream.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2669724

(Although they did get the bit about Atkins diet wrong, that was always low carb, high fat, moderate protein )


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Thanks for that article.... but I think you have posted in the wrong thread!
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #528 on: February 22, 2018, 10:53:20 AM »
Interesting article about protein and a LCHF diet ...

https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/


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Offline Billzbub

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #529 on: February 22, 2018, 04:01:28 PM »
When I saw the title, I was so excited that Steve finally heard about our discussions here and decided to chime in.

https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/low-fat-vs-low-carb-no-difference/

But then I read the article, and its not about ketogenic diets at all.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline lonely moa

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #530 on: February 24, 2018, 04:40:18 AM »
Our "Dear Leader' is living in the conflicted near past. 

Our ancestors ate a lot of protein and fat and few carbohydrates.  They were big and strong.  We saw how large and robust they were ( like the Plains indians and the Mongol warriors) and how humans on average became smaller, less robust and less healthy with the introduction of agriculture.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #531 on: February 24, 2018, 06:29:22 AM »
Yeah. Damn our dependence on grains stopping us all from growing to more than 5'8".
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/05/010529071125.htm

Online John Albert

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #532 on: February 24, 2018, 07:17:52 PM »
Our ancestors ate a lot of protein and fat and few carbohydrates.  They were big and strong.  We saw how large and robust they were ( like the Plains indians and the Mongol warriors) and how humans on average became smaller, less robust and less healthy with the introduction of agriculture.

Evidence?


Online gmalivuk

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #533 on: February 24, 2018, 08:32:29 PM »
I think it's fairly well established that the *introduction* of agriculture caused a drop in health (but also a drop in death by starvation). The thing is that we've figured some stuff out in the past several thousand years.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #534 on: February 24, 2018, 08:57:56 PM »
I think it's fairly well established that the *introduction* of agriculture caused a drop in health (but also a drop in death by starvation). The thing is that we've figured some stuff out in the past several thousand years.
Really? What’s that ? Aside from learning how to make ourselves obese?


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I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online John Albert

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #535 on: February 24, 2018, 09:21:35 PM »
But first of all, citing the Plains Indians and 11th Century Mongols as examples of "our" ancestors is a laughably hasty generalization based on two cherry-picked examples of seminomadic civilizations.

Besides that, there's no conclusive evidence about the diets of "our ancestors." Even if there was evidence that all paleolithic humans ate diets very low in carbohydrates, that's still not sufficient evidence to validate claims that the carbs were the cause of the decline in physical robustness after humans congregated into cities. In fact there are countless factors that would appear to suggest otherwise, for example some civilizations that have led very healthy lifestyles on carb-heavy diets. 

The claim that "our ancestors" were "big" is not even true. The Cro Magnon, for example, averaged about 166 to 171 cm (about 5' 5" to 5' 7") tall, which is shorter than modern man. And those guys were relatively tall compared with other early hominids. The Neanderthals (who are thought to have derived even more of their diet from hunting large game) were even shorter.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:27:55 AM by John Albert »

Online gmalivuk

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #536 on: February 24, 2018, 10:16:29 PM »
I think it's fairly well established that the *introduction* of agriculture caused a drop in health (but also a drop in death by starvation). The thing is that we've figured some stuff out in the past several thousand years.
Really? What’s that ? Aside from learning how to make ourselves obese?
lonely moa's the one who used height as a proxy for health. We're taller now than those people who apparently ate non-agricultural diets and were all big and robust as a result, so on that logic we must be healthier than they were.

But also, we've been using agriculture for literally a hundred or more times longer than the obesity epidemic has been a thing.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #537 on: February 25, 2018, 07:54:46 AM »
Picking cherries is really fun though!
Check out these gigantic chinese folks who lived on an agricultural diet:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/skeletons-china-giants-5000-year-old-archaeologists-discovered-jiaojia-jinan-shandong-a7824326.html

(Apparently Confucius was 190cm?!!)

Its almost as if its a bullshit metric either way....

Offline lonely moa

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #538 on: February 25, 2018, 12:57:35 PM »
I think it's fairly well established that the *introduction* of agriculture caused a drop in health (but also a drop in death by starvation). The thing is that we've figured some stuff out in the past several thousand years.
Really? What’s that ? Aside from learning how to make ourselves obese?
lonely moa's the one who used height as a proxy for health. We're taller now than those people who apparently ate non-agricultural diets and were all big and robust as a result, so on that logic we must be healthier than they were.

But also, we've been using agriculture for literally a hundred or more times longer than the obesity epidemic has been a thing.

Humans haven't been eating highly processed carbohydrates and sugar for all that long, and only encouraged to eat that way for the last half century. 
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #539 on: February 25, 2018, 02:28:33 PM »
I think it's fairly well established that the *introduction* of agriculture caused a drop in health (but also a drop in death by starvation). The thing is that we've figured some stuff out in the past several thousand years.
Really? What’s that ? Aside from learning how to make ourselves obese?
lonely moa's the one who used height as a proxy for health. We're taller now than those people who apparently ate non-agricultural diets and were all big and robust as a result, so on that logic we must be healthier than they were.

But also, we've been using agriculture for literally a hundred or more times longer than the obesity epidemic has been a thing.

Humans haven't been eating highly processed carbohydrates and sugar for all that long, and only encouraged to eat that way for the last half century.
And yet average height, lifespan and IQ has been going up and up.
Along with records being set by athletes with all kinds of diets.