Author Topic: LCHF and healthy eating  (Read 149879 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2610
    • jt512
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1545 on: April 09, 2019, 10:24:33 PM »


It looks like red meat and processed meat are not as bad as they thought.

Plus, the "low in whole grains" diet very likely mean "high in highly processed and refined grains."



Health effects of dietary risks in 195 countries, 1990–2017: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2017 - The Lancet


Since you posted it, perhaps you could explain the methodology and why you believe it has produced valid results.  Alternatively, admit you don't have a clue about the methodology and thus you have no good reason to believe that the results are valid.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1546 on: April 30, 2019, 04:44:48 PM »
Well this is new. And interesting. The American Diabetes Association has now included Low Carb diets as a healthy eating plan, and as  viable option for diabetes care and they are emphasizing carbohydrate restriction as a strategy to control glycemia.

So ADA, is main stream medicine. Glad to see them finally catching up with the science.


Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes—2019 Abridged for Primary Care Providers | Clinical Diabetes

Quote
"Eating Patterns, Macronutrient Distribution, and Meal Planning" in the full version of the Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes (https://doi.org/10.2337/dc19-S005) has been updated to state the following:

“Evidence suggests that there is not an ideal percentage of calories from carbohydrate, protein, and fat for all people with diabetes. Therefore, macronutrient distribution should be based on an individualized assessment of current eating patterns, preferences, and metabolic goals. Consider personal preferences (e.g., tradition, culture, religion, health beliefs and goals, economics) as well as metabolic goals when working with individuals to determine the best eating pattern for them (35,51,52). It is important that each member of the health care team be knowledgeable about nutrition therapy principles for people with all types of diabetes and be supportive of their implementation.

A variety of eating patterns are acceptable for the management of diabetes (51,54). Until the evidence surrounding comparative benefits of different eating patterns in specific individuals strengthens, health care providers should focus on the key factors that are common among the patterns: 1) emphasize nonstarchy vegetables, 2) minimize added sugars and refined grains, and 3) choose whole foods over highly processed foods to the extent possible (Evert 2019). Referral to an RD or registered dietitian nutritionist (RDN) is essential to assess the overall nutrition status of, and to work collaboratively with, the patient to create a personalized meal plan that considers the individual’s health status, skills, resources, food preferences, and health goals to coordinate and align with the overall treatment plan including physical activity and medication.

The Mediterranean-style (55,56), low-carbohydrate and plant-based (60,61) eating patterns are all examples of healthful eating patterns that have shown positive results in research, but individualized meal planning should focus on personal preferences, needs, and goals.

Reducing overall carbohydrate intake for individuals with diabetes has demonstrated the most evidence for improving glycemia and may be applied in a variety of eating patterns that meet individual needs and preferences.

For individuals with type 2 diabetes not meeting glycemic targets or where reducing glucose-lowering drugs is a priority, reducing overall carbohydrate intake with a low- or very low-carbohydrate eating pattern is a viable option. (Sainsbury 2018, van Zuuren 2018, Snorgaard 2017).

As research studies on some low-carbohydrate eating plans generally indicate challenges with long-term sustainability, it is important to reassess and individualize meal plan guidance regularly for those interested in this approach. This eating pattern is not recommended at this time for women who are pregnant or lactating, people with or at risk for disordered eating, or people who have renal disease, and it should be used with caution in patients taking sodium–glucose cotransporter 2 (SGLT2) inhibitors due to the potential risk of ketoacidosis (65,66). There is inadequate research in type 1 diabetes to support one eating pattern over another at this time.”
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline lonely moa

  • A rather tough old bird.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5003
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1548 on: May 17, 2019, 01:39:42 PM »
An interesting study from Kevin Hall, finding that processed food is fattening. 

It looks like the study was designed to not be able to prove that carbs or fat were more fattening, but it's also true that most highly processed foods are significantly higher in carbs than fat or protein.

It should be fairly simple to redo this study without creating an artificial balance among macronutrients. If so, then the difference in weight gain would be larger, according to the alternate theory.
 


Heavily processed foods cause overeating and weight gain, study finds: Small-scale trial is the first randomized, controlled research of its kind -- ScienceDaily


Quote
People eating ultra-processed foods ate more calories and gained more weight than when they ate a minimally processed diet, according to results from a new study. The difference occurred even though meals provided to the volunteers in both the ultra-processed and minimally processed diets had the same number of calories and macronutrients.

In another study Hall is now suggesting that protein may be the key to weight loss.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 09:51:46 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline gmalivuk

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2876
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1549 on: May 17, 2019, 02:12:26 PM »
They ate more calories so they gained more weight. Shocking.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1550 on: May 17, 2019, 03:59:18 PM »
They ate more calories so they gained more weight. Shocking.

Yea, no shit. That's a tautology. Weight (whether muscle, or fat) is calories consumed and not burned. So, yes if they ate more calories than they burn they will add weight.

This is important because it shows that the reason people ate more calories was that most of those calories were coming from highly processed foods.

I would contend that if the foods had been more representative of the actual food environment (where the bulk of calories from highly processed foods are from fast simple carbs) they would have gained significantly more weight.

It seems as if this study was designed to avoid that finding.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 09:51:16 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline RubyDuckman

  • Doesn't Panic
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1551 on: May 17, 2019, 09:38:51 PM »
Many highly processed foods provide as many, if not more, calories from fat.

Yet of course you ignore that because it doesn't fit with your religious beliefs.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1552 on: May 17, 2019, 09:50:49 PM »
Many highly processed foods provide as many, if not more, calories from fat.

Yet of course you ignore that ...

By far more calories in highly processed foods come from carbs.

Yes there are some highly processed foods with more fat, but those are the exception. And the only one ignoring the macronutrient composition of highly processed foods is the researcher, who designed the study to ensure that there could be no difference between macronutrients.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2610
    • jt512
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1553 on: May 17, 2019, 09:54:37 PM »
Yes there are some highly processed foods with more fat, but those are the exception. And the only one ignoring the macronutrient composition of highly processed foods is the researcher, who designed the study to ensure that there could be no difference between macronutrients.


Since the hypothesis was about the effect of processing, then everything except processing, including (indeed, especially) macronutrient composition, had to be held constant.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1554 on: May 17, 2019, 10:07:20 PM »
Yes there are some highly processed foods with more fat, but those are the exception. And the only one ignoring the macronutrient composition of highly processed foods is the researcher, who designed the study to ensure that there could be no difference between macronutrients.


Since the hypothesis was about the effect of processing, then everything except processing, including (indeed, especially) macronutrient composition, had to be held constant.

The hypothesis was about the effect of processed foods, not processing. It's a subtle distinction. The difference is that they didn't eat processed and unprocessed versions of the same foods, but they ate highly processed foods and minimally or unprocessed foods.

And I have no issue with whatever lengths they went to in order to ensure the macronutrient composition was identical in an ad lib feeding study. (I imagine it wasn't easy)

But now that processed food is clearly shown to be an issue, I saying the next step is to do a similar study but not control for macronutrients. Allow dieters to eat at higher carb, higher fat, balanced processed foods, keeping other variables equal.

The alternate hypothesis is that high carb processed foods will generate the most weight gain and high fat the least.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:15:05 PM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline RubyDuckman

  • Doesn't Panic
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1555 on: May 18, 2019, 06:31:51 AM »


Many highly processed foods provide as many, if not more, calories from fat.

Yet of course you ignore that ...

By far more calories in highly processed foods come from carbs.
Repeating it doesn't make it true

Quote

Yes there are some highly processed foods with more fat, but those are the exception. And the only one ignoring the macronutrient composition of highly processed foods is the researcher, who designed the study to ensure that there could be no difference between macronutrients.

It's called controlling for variables,  something you seem to be unfamiliar with.



Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


Offline RubyDuckman

  • Doesn't Panic
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1556 on: May 18, 2019, 06:40:08 AM »
You call these exceptions?

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


Offline CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11942
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1557 on: May 18, 2019, 10:24:10 AM »
In both cases less than half the calories come from fat.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2610
    • jt512
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1558 on: May 18, 2019, 10:54:03 AM »
In both cases less than half the calories come from fat.

In both cases more calories come from fat than from carbohydrate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline gmalivuk

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2876
Re: LCHF and healthy eating
« Reply #1559 on: May 18, 2019, 11:17:25 AM »
In both cases less than half the calories come from fat.
Plus the usual recommendation is 30%, and both exceed that.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

 

personate-rain
personate-rain