Author Topic: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows  (Read 53870 times)

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Offline Harry Black

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #525 on: February 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM »
So I found the misogyny very spell breaking to be honest.
We are so far in the future but we have actually taken two steps back in terms of how women are viewed and treated? Why? How?

Also, we are a trans planetary species in this story but gangs are still divided up by current ethnicities? Weird.

And I guess in the future, latinx people still speak spanish at home and old women born hundreds of years from now still have the values and religiosity of my granny?

But weirdest of all- Smoking.

So yes, you can do some mental gymnastics to get past all of these issues but the story would flow so much better (imo) and elicit fewer complaints if they had just made some different choices.
The story would barely be impacted.

The complaint I hear alot and cant argue with is- We can imagine any world and any technology we like and bring it to life on screen. Why cant we imagine women being treated better?
And yes. I saw a dead male sex slave too. But the show has a definite preference.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #526 on: February 15, 2018, 06:04:38 PM »
I think there are reasonable explanations for most of those issues but it definitely felt like it was based on a story written 40 years ago, I was surprised the book was only released in 2002. 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 07:57:55 AM by Ah.hell »

Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #527 on: February 15, 2018, 06:11:35 PM »
But are women in this future viewed and treated worse than they are now? We don't have enough information to say that.

The world that Takeshi is caught up in, is at the very fringes of this society. We see him with the elite and at the lowest end of society. Everyone in between seems normal.

We are supposed to be appalled at excesses that the Meths (Methuselahs) go to to fulfil their sick fantasies. The ordinary people of this world see them as perverted.
The sex clubs (and worse) are going to be aimed, mostly, at a male audience.

I do think shows like this, West World and Game of Thrones overdo the sex and nudity, and could tell the same story effectively without it. I don't mind either way.

I wasn't thinking of the dead male slave when I mentioned male nudity. There are several men walking around naked. Including the rich Meth who hired Tak.
Of course female nudity will be more prominently featured.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #528 on: February 16, 2018, 02:15:30 PM »
If you listen to the conversation between the two VR techs and look at how the wealthy character treats his wife and the other women in his life, and we are led to believe this is pretty normal, then yeah. I would say its slightly worse than today.
Especially the very female focused snuff aspect. Why would sex clubs be explicitly more of a male domain than female? Why would it be mostly straight?
Again, there are explanations but it just begs so many questions that its worth discussing if you are into that kind of thing.
Definitely a wasted opportunity.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #529 on: February 16, 2018, 02:33:19 PM »
If you listen to the conversation between the two VR techs and look at how the wealthy character treats his wife and the other women in his life, and we are led to believe this is pretty normal, then yeah. I would say its slightly worse than today.
Especially the very female focused snuff aspect. Why would sex clubs be explicitly more of a male domain than female? Why would it be mostly straight?
Why mostly straight?  Unless you think that in 300 years the ratio of mostly straight to other than mostly straight will dramatically change for some reason, that shouldn't be surprising.  IIRC, the best data is that roughly 90% of people are cis straight folks.  Aside from that, Kovacs was tracking the last movements of a straight white male sadist, the demographics of his prostitutes would seem pretty obvious.  We could have change the portion of prostitutes and victims that were male or gay but then the rich guy would have to have been female or gay, how would that go over? I also don't see much reason to think that the proportion of hookers catering to men to those catering to not men will be all that different than it is now or has been for most of history.  It might but it probably wouldn't be that noticeable a change.   The wealthy character also treated pretty much everyone poorly men, women, his own children. 


Quote
Again, there are explanations but it just begs so many questions that its worth discussing if you are into that kind of thing.
Definitely a wasted opportunity.



They totally glossed over how they managed FTL communications even though the subject came up a lot. Why were clones and artificial bodies so expensive relative to used bodies and synths?  Why weren't there lines of pre-manufactured clones of reasonable quality up for sail?  Not clones of your original body but just cheap clones of some former olympic athelete or supermodel?  Instead they need the body of convicts or personal clones.  Why were back ups of stacks so expensive?  You'd think most folks would back themselves up when they went to bed at night.  Why was there petty crime?  It would be super easy to replay living victims memories and go, yep that's the guy that robbed me.  No need for polygraphs, just voluntarily replay your memory.  As noted, why not virtual slums that were actually near paradise for the poor?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 02:40:49 PM by Ah.hell »

Offline Harry Black

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #530 on: February 16, 2018, 04:56:56 PM »
Look, you can whatabout all you like with regard to other choices they could have made, but the fact is that its more often than not that when a future world is imagined, objectification of women for the male gaze is still a feature and very often, current ethnic stereotypes remain or people of colour are rather under represented.
These are talking points that some people wish were different in fiction that they otherwise enjoy and I dont think its a big deal to give that kind of critique. It doesnt invalidate the show, it doesnt need to change our enjoyment of it and its all fair game.
And yeah, absolutely, if someone wanted to discuss the wealth gap representation here then I actually think that would be interesting. To me, that is actually the central theme of the show though and its highlighting does more good than harm.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #531 on: February 16, 2018, 05:06:37 PM »
I don't disagree with what you've just said, I'm just not convinced the criticism is merited in this case is all. 


Edit, definitely the wealth inequality was more central to the story.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:08:56 PM by Ah.hell »

Offline Harry Black

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #532 on: February 16, 2018, 07:23:46 PM »
I'm not sure why this show ought to be exempt from such critique?
It doesnt harm the show itself but its a choice the writers made that could have been different with minimal plot impact.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #533 on: February 20, 2018, 08:51:33 AM »
I'm not sure why this show ought to be exempt from such critique?
It doesnt harm the show itself but its a choice the writers made that could have been different with minimal plot impact.
I don't think it should be exempt, I do think if you changed a few of the gender specific things, it would have an impact on the plot and needed more explanation and in many cases made less sense. 


Offline superdave

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #534 on: February 23, 2018, 11:47:55 AM »
mozart in the jungle is still just a pleasantly enjoyable watch without too much thinking but not being too dumb either.
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Online Rai

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #535 on: March 20, 2018, 10:48:09 AM »
I just binged Altered Carbon on Netflix.

It was quite all right, I suppose. Kind of a mix between Dollhouse, the Expanse and Blade Runner. It had some decent ideas and interesting premises, but somehow it wasn't all that great. Also it did not to that great a job at explaining some of its core concepts.

 Probably the generic angsty white male protagonist didn't help either. Athough, the next season will hopefully have an asian male protagonist (and a much better actor) through a rather smart racial bait and switch.

Also, there is a LOT of nudity.

Lastly, I was somewhat miffed that they hired Renée Elise Goldsberry and she doesn't sing at all.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #536 on: March 20, 2018, 11:20:08 AM »
Longmire, murder mysteries set in Absoroka County Wyoming, America's Midsomer.  Its ok, I only compare it to Midsomer as they're both fiction rural counties with alarmingly high murder rates.   Longmire has a much more serious tone. 

Offline CarbShark

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List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #537 on: March 20, 2018, 11:56:20 AM »
I spent a lot of time in the mountains where it was filmed. (NM). I liked the way they would get out of breath during a fight scene or foot chase.


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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #538 on: March 26, 2018, 05:17:21 PM »
Happy! - 7/10

It's a graphic novel-based show that looks like it retains the feel of the original work.

I'd recommend it to anyone that wants a combination of:
  • Absurd
  • Pulp Noir
  • Dark Comedy
  • Degenerate Protagonist/Antagonist
  • Redemption Arcs
The humor reminds me of Crank quite a bit, too, if any of you liked that.

Trailer:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 05:30:05 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
... in war the screams are loud and harsh and in peace the wail is so drawn-out we tell ourselves we hear nothing.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
« Reply #539 on: March 26, 2018, 05:27:10 PM »
Happy! - 7/10

It's a graphic novel-based show that looks like it retains the feel of the original.

I'd recommend it to anyone that wants a combination of:
  • Absurd
  • Pulp Noir
  • Dark Comedy
  • Degenerate Protagonist/Antagonist
  • Redemption Arcs
The humor reminds me of Crank quite a bit, too, if any of you liked that.

Trailer:
(click to show/hide)
Crank is a great comparison.

I gave up two episodes before the end of this, I WAS enjoying it, but it got drawn out too long.

(click to show/hide)

 

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