Author Topic: Self-Driving Cars  (Read 117419 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1605 on: December 05, 2018, 10:26:23 pm »
Actually, I hope that none of the above is susceptible to being hacked. But given the various news items about who's been hacked, I suspect that the public sector and companies whose entry into the computer age is ancillary to their primary expertise are probably more vulnerable than companies whose primary expertise is computers. Thus I have more confidence in the Google Car than in a power plant when it comes to putting up barriers to hacking.
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1606 on: December 06, 2018, 03:43:34 pm »
I don't think the person who brought up the hacking is talking about hacking just one car at a time.  If someone hacked the Tesla system that provides over-the-air updates, then they could cause a serious problem.  Once all cars are self-driving and over-the-air updatable, this problem could get even worse.  Image a group of hackers installing an update on 50% of the self-driving cars that says at a specific date and time, they should all accelerate and turn left.

I'm still with all the people that pointed out all the other systems that are already like this that we depend on like traffic lights, air traffic control, etc.  Society isn't going to just say "oh, nevermind" with regard to the future of self driving cars just because there's the tiny possibility that cars can be hacked.  Rather, the government may push legislation that requires a hardware override that a person can use to gain manual control of a car in the event of a system-wide hack, or at least a hardware button that can gracefully stop the car if there's no human controls.
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Offline Morvis13

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1607 on: December 06, 2018, 03:52:02 pm »
It only takes a fraction of a second for the hacker to make an accident unrecoverable. Human reaction times are not that good which is a major reason why we need robot drivers. Don't make the updates go over the air. use that air gap as a protection from hackers. Only update when plugged in overnight.
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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1608 on: June 14, 2019, 02:09:59 pm »

Volvo Trucks’ autonomous vehicle is hauling goods in Sweden

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Volvo Trucks' autonomous vehicle Vera is ready to hit the road. In collaboration with ferry and logistics company DFDS, Vera will begin transporting goods between a logistics center and a port terminal in Gothenburg, Sweden. The vehicle will haul shipping containers along a predefined route, including a stretch of public roads.
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1609 on: October 22, 2019, 03:33:32 pm »
NOVA The new episode “Look Who’s Driving” documents the “autonomous automobiles” now being tested on public roads around the world.  PBS Wednesday 9 p.m. (Pacific Time, check local listings)
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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1610 on: October 25, 2019, 03:30:37 pm »

Hyundai will offer free self-driving rides in Irvine, California | Engadget

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A handful of Californians are about to experience self-driving cars first-hand. Hyundai, Via and (appropriately enough) Pony.ai are debuting a driverless ride hailing BotRide service in Irvine on November 4th. A group of "several hundred" residents, including college students, will have free access to autonomous Kona Electric SUVs that will take them between multiple points of interest, using Via's algorithms to optimize the number of passengers without making them walk too far at either end of the trip. Pony.ai will supply the sensor hardware and software to help navigate city streets.


If this doesn't work, maybe they could train rats to drive?
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1611 on: October 25, 2019, 09:24:12 pm »

Hyundai will offer free self-driving rides in Irvine, California | Engadget

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A handful of Californians are about to experience self-driving cars first-hand. Hyundai, Via and (appropriately enough) Pony.ai are debuting a driverless ride hailing BotRide service in Irvine on November 4th. A group of "several hundred" residents, including college students, will have free access to autonomous Kona Electric SUVs that will take them between multiple points of interest, using Via's algorithms to optimize the number of passengers without making them walk too far at either end of the trip. Pony.ai will supply the sensor hardware and software to help navigate city streets.

Interesting. I've been rooting for Tesla to be the first, but not encouraged by their progress. The Level 2 so-called Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) in my Model 3 works wonderfully, for driving in a lane and managing speed, including coming to a stop when the traffic stops and starting up again when it does, and changing lanes. But navigating in the city seems a long way off.

But I'll be happy when anybody breaks that nut. I'm guessing that the cars referred to in the article are driving within a small area where everything is pre-programmed into the car.
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Online CarbShark

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Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1612 on: October 26, 2019, 12:25:43 am »


Hyundai will offer free self-driving rides in Irvine, California | Engadget

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A handful of Californians are about to experience self-driving cars first-hand. Hyundai, Via and (appropriately enough) Pony.ai are debuting a driverless ride hailing BotRide service in Irvine on November 4th. A group of "several hundred" residents, including college students, will have free access to autonomous Kona Electric SUVs that will take them between multiple points of interest, using Via's algorithms to optimize the number of passengers without making them walk too far at either end of the trip. Pony.ai will supply the sensor hardware and software to help navigate city streets.

I may drive down to Irvine and try to get a ride in a driverless car.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 05:25:34 pm by CarbShark »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1613 on: October 26, 2019, 10:52:42 am »
^ Check your formatting. I did not say "I may drive down to Irvine and try to get a ride in a driverless car." That appears to be your comment, though it is quoted within mine.
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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1614 on: October 26, 2019, 05:26:03 pm »
^ Check your formatting. I did not say "I may drive down to Irvine and try to get a ride in a driverless car." That appears to be your comment, though it is quoted within mine.
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Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1615 on: December 18, 2019, 02:31:00 am »
Recent video on Waymo in Arizona:


Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1616 on: December 18, 2019, 09:42:13 am »
Recent video on Waymo in Arizona:



Thanks for posting that. Very interesting.
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Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1617 on: February 19, 2020, 10:48:15 am »
"Hackers stuck a 2-inch strip of tape on a 35-mph speed sign and successfully tricked 2 Teslas into accelerating to 85 mph"


https://www.yahoo.com/news/hackers-stuck-2-inch-strip-111312712.html


Still, should be ready any day now! 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1618 on: February 19, 2020, 11:24:33 am »
"Hackers stuck a 2-inch strip of tape on a 35-mph speed sign and successfully tricked 2 Teslas into accelerating to 85 mph"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hackers-stuck-2-inch-strip-111312712.html

Still, should be ready any day now! 

According to the article you link to above, it was the 4-year-old MobilEye system that was fooled. Tesla has not used MobilEye in years, and even MobilEye no longer uses that system. Teslas sold after 2016, according to the article, were not fooled. (Because they don't try to read street signs.)

But everybody following the development of autonomous cars knows that we are years away from a fully autonomous car. Even Elon Musk is only promising a Level 2 system this year, and nobody believes in his promise of "feature complete" that soon. Musk has never met a deadline. He'd rather miss a deadline than release an unsafe feature.

For those not following the issue:

Up until a year or two ago, Musk was promising that his cars would be capable of entirely driving themselves, without a driver, at some unspecified date, by way of over-the-air (OTA) updates, if you paid for the "FSD" package. I did not pay for that package because I thought it would take long enough that I'd be ready for a new car by the time full autonomy is achieved. Instead I bought the enhanced autopilot (EAP) package, which is Level 2, meaning that the driver must be fully alert at all times.

A year or two ago Musk acknowledged that the computer in the cars was insufficient. Tesla began putting a better computer in all new cars, and people who had paid for "FSD" were promised the new computer as a free upgrade.

At the same time, apparently recognizing that full autonomy was harder than he had earlier imagined, he started promising a rather nebulous concept called "feature complete." This seems to mean that "Navigate on Autopilot" (NoAP) which presently works on freeways if you've paid for either the EAP or the FSD package, would also work in the city. NoAP on the freeway will change lanes as needed, and navigate freeway intersections, based on your NAV destination. "Feature complete FSD" would do the same in the city, including stopping for red lights and stop signs.

NoAP is still a Level 2 feature, meaning that the driver is fully responsible for taking over whenever needed. And what Elon is promising "this year" would do this in the city, but still would be Level 2.

So, no, Musk is no longer promising full autonomy "any day now," or even this year. I have said from the start that I thought it would take at the very least five years, and more probably ten years. I think that even the Level 2 City NoAP is at least 3 years away, and Tesla has recently announced a complete re-write of the code (something that every large software project goes through) which probably pushes "feature complete" out by at least a year.

Vehicle autonomy is a long-term project. And Tesla is not the only company working on it. Several big automakers and several tech companies are working on it. Tesla has the best Level 2 autopilot system available for purchase by regular car buyers today, and I'm rooting for Tesla to win the race to full autonomy, but nobody knows who will get there first.

Saying sarcastically "Still, should be ready any day now!" is a straw-man argument. Nobody expects that. Everybody knows it will come slowly, in baby steps.
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1619 on: February 19, 2020, 01:54:34 pm »
"Hackers stuck a 2-inch strip of tape on a 35-mph speed sign and successfully tricked 2 Teslas into accelerating to 85 mph"


https://www.yahoo.com/news/hackers-stuck-2-inch-strip-111312712.html


Still, should be ready any day now!
Wouldn't a human be fooled in the same manner?
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