Author Topic: Self-Driving Cars  (Read 45083 times)

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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1185 on: March 30, 2017, 10:58:33 PM »
It's a silly point because computers can and do land planes.

Yeah, I know.

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1186 on: March 31, 2017, 05:26:50 AM »
Its interesting what the article DOESN'T say.  It doesn't say, "Luckily the Boeing 737 can be safely landed on autopilot..."
That would be because the Boeing 737 wasn't safely landed on autopilot. It was safely landed by the pilot, with assistance from a computer.

Why would the article say that it was safely landed on autopilot when it wasn't?

Phooey's point is that a computer cannot land a plane, therefore a computer cannot drive a car. A complete non-sequitur. Again, he'd rather see 30,000 people killed by human drivers than one person killed by a computer.

It's a silly point because computers can and do land planes. We have planes that are entirely computer piloted. I hate to trash talk Boeing, but the major functional difference is that Boeing programming leaves things more to the pilot, while a similar Airbus jet will override the pilot under certain ciorcumstances.

A single pilot could not land the 737 unless there were a series of computers doing things like keeping straight, maintaining attitude, regulating engine function, and so on. The existence of the autoland procedure completely debunks the idea that a computer can't land a plane. It's just that in this incident, it was reported as a single pilot landing the plane in much the same way that a single pilot is flying a plane when autopilot is maintaining the course.

Please continue Skeptiqueer, I love you making my point for me. 

Boy it sure is a good thing planes don't have to weave through traffic and pedestrians too. 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1187 on: March 31, 2017, 11:00:42 AM »
Its interesting what the article DOESN'T say.  It doesn't say, "Luckily the Boeing 737 can be safely landed on autopilot..."
That would be because the Boeing 737 wasn't safely landed on autopilot. It was safely landed by the pilot, with assistance from a computer.

Why would the article say that it was safely landed on autopilot when it wasn't?

Phooey's point is that a computer cannot land a plane, therefore a computer cannot drive a car. A complete non-sequitur. Again, he'd rather see 30,000 people killed by human drivers than one person killed by a computer.

Right, but he was pointing out that the article didn't say that something that didn't happen happened. The article also didn't say that a twelve-foot cobra wrapped itself around the third passenger on the left, but to point that out would make about as much sense.

Do we know for sure that a cobra didn't wrap itself around the passenger? Just because the article didn't mention it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

... Boy it sure is a good thing planes don't have to weave through traffic and pedestrians too. 

Completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that computer-driven cars will kill far fewer people than human drivers do today, whether driving at high speed on freeways or weaving through traffic and pedestrians.

Yes, it's a good thing that something as enormous as a commercial jetliner does not have to weave through traffic and pedestrians. And it would also be a good thing if human drivers could weave through traffic and pedestrians without killing 30,000 people a year in the U.S. alone, and injuring hundreds of thousands more. But they can't. Which is why we need to put computers in the "driver's seat" to prevent 90% to 99% of those deaths and injuries.
Daniel
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Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1188 on: March 31, 2017, 09:20:19 PM »
We have no idea at this point if the current ability of automated cars will save any lives at all.  That's pure speculation on your part. 

If we made cars out of nerf material and only allowed them to drive at 12 miles per hour, that will for sure save lives.  Are you in favor of that? 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1189 on: April 01, 2017, 09:11:42 AM »
We have no idea at this point if the current ability of automated cars will save any lives at all.

Actually, we do, based on the millions of cumulative miles that test cars have driven, providing solid data on their abilities and performance. Nobody is saying that full autonomy is ready yet, but based on the very rapid progress being made, it will be ready soon. The actual switch to full autonomy will not be sudden. Driver-assist features will mature gradually into autonomy under ideal conditions, which will gradually expand into more and more difficult conditions, until finally you can sleep in the back seat while your car drives.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1190 on: April 01, 2017, 11:30:49 AM »
It sounds like you are talking about the planes with autopilot for landing which need a pilot for landing (preferably two).

There are no self-driving cars on the road that don't also have a driver.  So I don't know what million miles you are talking about.  Do you mean the Google cars driving 12 miles per hour around a parking lot? 

How do you feel about Nerf cars?   

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1191 on: April 01, 2017, 02:09:43 PM »
Yes, the test cars have a person sitting in them "just in case" and because of regulations. No, they're not going 12 mph, or even just 35 mph anymore. They are demonstrating that the car can handle itself on the public roadways. There are also long-haul freight trucks that have a person in them "just in case" but that are driving themselves most of the time.

As I said, this is a gradual shift, not a sudden switch.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1192 on: April 02, 2017, 12:00:10 AM »
It sounds like you are talking about the planes with autopilot for landing which need a pilot for landing (preferably two).

There are no self-driving cars on the road that don't also have a driver.  So I don't know what million miles you are talking about.  Do you mean the Google cars driving 12 miles per hour around a parking lot?

Your knowledge of the industry is a few years old.

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1193 on: April 02, 2017, 08:54:20 AM »
Luddite: "A person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology."

Naysayer: "A person who habitually expresses negative or pessimistic views."

Apparently, mixing those together results in a very potent brew!  >:D
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 08:39:50 AM by Fast Eddie B »
"And what it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet" - Alanis Morisette
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1194 on: April 03, 2017, 01:13:26 AM »
I'm going to coin a new portmanteau word: LUDDSAYER

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1195 on: April 03, 2017, 10:17:37 AM »
I'm going to coin a new portmanteau word: LUDDSAYER

I like it. Accurately describes someone I can think of.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1196 on: April 03, 2017, 03:42:29 PM »
Guys, can we get off the subject of neologisms and back on the subject of rampant ninja crime and its effect on self-driving cars?
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1197 on: April 03, 2017, 06:57:22 PM »
Guys, can we get off the subject of neologisms and back on the subject of rampant ninja crime and its effect on self-driving cars?

Maybe, but you have to admit a naysaying, Luddite ninja would be a force to reckon with!
"And what it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet" - Alanis Morisette
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"I doubt that!" - James Randi

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1198 on: April 20, 2017, 07:31:53 PM »
I agree, all you Luddite skeptics need to wake up to the potential of modern technology. 

Who needs driverless cars when you are flying to work?  Wake up guys, the future is passing you by, while your google car is stuck in reverse. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/aeromobil-1-million-flying-car-deliveries-begin-2020-2017-4

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1199 on: April 21, 2017, 10:17:45 AM »
I agree, all you Luddite skeptics need to wake up to the potential of modern technology. 

Who needs driverless cars when you are flying to work?  Wake up guys, the future is passing you by, while your google car is stuck in reverse. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/aeromobil-1-million-flying-car-deliveries-begin-2020-2017-4

Nothing new here. We've had helicopters for a long time. And there have been flying cars before. Nobody wants them. Too inconvenient and you still need a pilot's license. But yes, they work. If there was a market for them you'd be able to buy one already. Nobody here says they wouldn't work.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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