Author Topic: Self-Driving Cars  (Read 86533 times)

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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1530 on: April 11, 2018, 04:38:26 PM »
Trouble is, "autopilot" is an accurate term. Originally, autopilot was a system that kept aircraft going in a straight line at a constant altitude. Which is pretty much all Tesla's autopilot does too. Maybe a little more than that. But when I think "autopilot", I think "this will keep going in a straight line until I tell it not to".

I guess most people don't have that connection, which is why "driver assist" is a better term.
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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1531 on: April 11, 2018, 05:01:20 PM »
They have a video titled, Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Teslas.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars

When?


Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1532 on: April 28, 2018, 07:32:57 PM »
They have a video titled, Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Teslas.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars

When?



Interesting video. From the single screen, it's a Model 3. My Model 3 will not stop for stop signs or red lights, though it will stop if there's a stopped car ahead of it. It also will not drop me off and find its own parking space, though I think the Model S with AP1 would do that. The feature was lost with AP2. Mine does have the ability to parallel park itself, though I have never tried that.

On the flight back to Spokane at the end of my recent trip, I sat next to a fellow whose job is advising car companies on interactive cars. My Tesla gets over-the-air firmware updates, but he said he was talking about cars communicating with other nearby cars. He said Cadillac has that on some models, or on one model, though at this point there would be few cars to communicate with.

This guy was very pessimistic on the timeline for FSD cars, due to the complexity of writing the regulations. He thinks we'll get to Level 4 in a decade, but thinks Level 5 is a very long ways away. I think he's overly pessimistic, but nobody really knows. A number of car makers are working on it, and when they feel they have a car that's ready, they'll push pretty hard for the regulations to be written so they can sell the cars.

When I got home my car was ready to download v. 14.13 of the firmware, and I really like it. The Roadster is fun to drive, but the Model 3 is a joy to drive. It's the most comfortable car I've ever owned or driven, and at nearly 70 years old I'm ready for comfort. (I've never owned or driven a luxury car. I've owned a Jeep CJ-5, a Honda Civic, the Toyota Prius that I still have but will probably sell now, the Zap Xebra, the Tesla Roadster which is now for sale, and now the Tesla Model 3 with the so-called "enhanced autopilot.") The Model 3 is not self-driving by a very very long way, but it's taken the very first baby step in that direction, and I suspect that when we get to FSD it will have come in such a long succession of tiny steps that we won't even notice it.
Daniel
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Offline Mormegil

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1533 on: May 02, 2018, 02:38:59 PM »
They have a video titled, Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Teslas.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars

When?



Interesting video. From the single screen, it's a Model 3.

It's an old video from 2016, and the screen is vertical with a 2nd screen behind the wheel, so it's not a Model 3.  Apparently, the Model 3 has one dedicated autonomous driving computer (Nvidia PX2 based, I think), with space for a 2nd one if needed.  Nvidia thinks 2 will be needed for FSD, while Tesla thinks they can pull it off with just one.  Nice that it can be retrofitted.

Congratulations on your Model 3.  I'm looking forward to getting one hopefully, within the year (reservation placed a couple of months back).

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1534 on: May 02, 2018, 03:31:39 PM »
They have a video titled, Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Teslas.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars

When?



Interesting video. From the single screen, it's a Model 3.

It's an old video from 2016, and the screen is vertical with a 2nd screen behind the wheel, so it's not a Model 3.  Apparently, the Model 3 has one dedicated autonomous driving computer (Nvidia PX2 based, I think), with space for a 2nd one if needed.  Nvidia thinks 2 will be needed for FSD, while Tesla thinks they can pull it off with just one.  Nice that it can be retrofitted.

Congratulations on your Model 3.  I'm looking forward to getting one hopefully, within the year (reservation placed a couple of months back).

You are right. My mistake. I saw the vertical screen and thought the Model S had a horizontal screen. But on your clue I looked closer at the dashboard, and the car in the video is definitely not a Model 3.

The more I drive my 3 the more of a joy it becomes. I'm almost disappointed that I'm away more than I'm home this summer, so won't get to drive it as much as I'd like. But I'm really looking forward to my summer hiking trip because I'll be driving the 3. It will be my first time driving electric on that trip, thanks to the supercharger in Kelowna.
Daniel
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Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1535 on: May 06, 2018, 08:21:15 AM »
Quote
This guy was very pessimistic on the timeline for FSD cars, due to the complexity of writing the regulations. He thinks we'll get to Level 4 in a decade, but thinks Level 5 is a very long ways away. I think he's overly pessimistic, but nobody really knows.

Gee, how long have I been telling you this? 

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1536 on: May 07, 2018, 10:29:44 AM »

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1537 on: May 11, 2018, 06:32:18 AM »
Quote
But it’s a leap of surprising complexity to go from a few sporadic implementations of self-driving technology to a get-in-the-backseat-and-take-a-nap world of robotic cars. In fact, many of the engineers and automotive executives we contacted can’t even agree about a realistic time frame, or what will be necessary in terms of laws and standards. But most do agree that it will take decades to sort it all out and spread full-autopilot technology into dealerships countrywide.

Seems you can't turn anywhere these days without bumping into more luddites. Decades! 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/state-self-driving-car-160620875.html

Offline HighPockets

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1538 on: May 11, 2018, 09:56:52 AM »
Quote
...remove humans from the task of driving.

It’s a compelling scenario: No texting drivers wandering into adjacent lanes. No aggressive road ragers cutting each other off. No tired, drunk, or just plain confused people in control of 2-ton vehicles. Just computers constantly analyzing the road and traffic conditions, always alert and making the safest, most logical decisions every time.

This is the problem they are facing today. If every human driver agreed to stop driving, we'd be all set.

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Online CarbShark

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1539 on: May 15, 2018, 02:05:15 PM »

Apple now has more than 50 autonomous cars on the road

Quote
Apple has more than doubled the number of its self-driving cars, the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has confirmed. Since obtaining a permit to test autonomous vehicles, Apple's fleet size has steadily risen -- from a scant three test cars, to 27 in January, and now, 55 intelligent machines. Should the program remain on course, consumers could be chilling out in the driver's seat by 2019.

The intake is accompanied by 83 drivers who will be testing the vehicles. At this stage, Apple hasn't been authorized to test self-driving cars independent of human supervision; for that, the company will need to submit a separate permit to the DMV -- something Waymo did last month.

The DMV also revealed that a second unnamed company had requested approval to begin driverless testing, but hasn't parted with any additional details.
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Online Alex Simmons

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1540 on: May 24, 2018, 11:15:17 PM »
NTSB preliminary report on the Uber self driving vehicle resulting in death of a pedestrian:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HWY18MH010-prelim.pdf

In short, the auto braking system installed in the car is disabled when the car is using Uber self-drive tech. WTF?

Quote
According to data obtained from the self-driving system, the system first registered radar and LIDAR observations of the pedestrian about 6 seconds before impact, when the vehicle was traveling at 43 mph. As the vehicle and pedestrian paths converged, the self-driving system software classified the pedestrian as an unknown object, as a vehicle, and then as a bicycle with varying expectations of future travel path. At 1.3 seconds before impact, the self-driving system determined that an emergency braking maneuver was needed to mitigate a collision (see figure 2).

2 According to Uber, emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control, to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior. The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator.

They did a toxicology assessment of the victim but not of the driver of the vehicle.

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1541 on: May 28, 2018, 11:47:41 PM »
NTSB preliminary report on the Uber self driving vehicle resulting in death of a pedestrian:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HWY18MH010-prelim.pdf

In short, the auto braking system installed in the car is disabled when the car is using Uber self-drive tech. WTF?

Quote
According to data obtained from the self-driving system, the system first registered radar and LIDAR observations of the pedestrian about 6 seconds before impact, when the vehicle was traveling at 43 mph. As the vehicle and pedestrian paths converged, the self-driving system software classified the pedestrian as an unknown object, as a vehicle, and then as a bicycle with varying expectations of future travel path. At 1.3 seconds before impact, the self-driving system determined that an emergency braking maneuver was needed to mitigate a collision (see figure 2).

2 According to Uber, emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control, to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior. The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator.

They did a toxicology assessment of the victim but not of the driver of the vehicle.

Did they do toxicology assessments of the people who designed the system? 

These are exactly the kinds of problems I have been talking about all along.  We are not smart enough yet.  We always think we are, but we aren't.  We have french fried and diet coke fueled worker zombies making decisions that can affect too many people.  "Did we forget to program in brakes?  Oops, sorry, has anyone been to that new micro-brewery?  I heard it rocks..."

"Man, next time program some brakes ok, that's fucked up." 

"Hey, That's kind of an aggressive way to talk to me."   

I wouldn't be handing my keys to Mark Zuckerberg anytime soon.   

Online Alex Simmons

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1542 on: May 29, 2018, 01:53:54 AM »
NTSB preliminary report on the Uber self driving vehicle resulting in death of a pedestrian:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HWY18MH010-prelim.pdf

In short, the auto braking system installed in the car is disabled when the car is using Uber self-drive tech. WTF?

Quote
According to data obtained from the self-driving system, the system first registered radar and LIDAR observations of the pedestrian about 6 seconds before impact, when the vehicle was traveling at 43 mph. As the vehicle and pedestrian paths converged, the self-driving system software classified the pedestrian as an unknown object, as a vehicle, and then as a bicycle with varying expectations of future travel path. At 1.3 seconds before impact, the self-driving system determined that an emergency braking maneuver was needed to mitigate a collision (see figure 2).

2 According to Uber, emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control, to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior. The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator.

They did a toxicology assessment of the victim but not of the driver of the vehicle.

Did they do toxicology assessments of the people who designed the system? 

These are exactly the kinds of problems I have been talking about all along.  We are not smart enough yet.  We always think we are, but we aren't.  We have french fried and diet coke fueled worker zombies making decisions that can affect too many people.  "Did we forget to program in brakes?  Oops, sorry, has anyone been to that new micro-brewery?  I heard it rocks..."

"Man, next time program some brakes ok, that's fucked up." 

"Hey, That's kind of an aggressive way to talk to me."   

I wouldn't be handing my keys to Mark Zuckerberg anytime soon.
Not sure what Zuckerberg has to do with it. It was an Uber vehicle.

In any case, it's more a case of distracted driving than of the technology, which as it turns out operated as it was programmed to do - i.e. support the human in control of the vehicle.

IOW it was not a self-drive vehicle, it was designed to self-navigate but not to manage all/many driving scenarios. There was a requirement for the driver to constantly monitor and control the vehicle and it turns out the driver failed to do so.

IOW the human was the collision avoidance system, as is the case in almost all vehicles. Keep that in mind - the human responsible for collision avoidance failed in performing that task.
Had that not been the case and the collision avoidance technology been enabled, I'm sure that unfortunate soul would be alive today.

Now it may be the driver failed to avoid the collision in part because of their employer's negligence (e.g. choice of poorly skilled or suitable driver candidate, inadequate or incorrect training, too long a shift etc), at this stage we don't know yet and we should wait for the final report.

Offline phooey

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1543 on: May 29, 2018, 09:06:15 AM »
Mark Zuckerberg is at the level of intelligence that we have to decided to trust our collective technological futures on. That's what he has to do with it.  Did you watch him testify before Congress?  Did you watch him testify before the EU commission?  This is the intellect that we are willing to put so much faith in?  Had Travis Kalanick still been running Uber, should we trust him even more?  Lord have mercy. 

Someone decided this system was a good idea.  A great idea.  let's spend billions of dollars testing a system which we will call a self-driving vehicle, but which is actually just a self steering vehicle sometimes.  And then we will tell some poorly trained part time schlep making minimum wage to decide when things are dangerous enough to tell the computer to go away so we don't someone or many someones.  The person who said, in a meeting with other geniuses, THIS IS A GREAT FUCKING IDEA, LET'S DO IT! 

That is the human error!  The human error is not the schmuck asked to do a stupid job, the human error is in the form of the brilliant leaders who said yes, let's do that. 

How many more dumbfucks are in positions of power to make similar decisions?  Watch Zuckerberg testify and that might give you some clues as to how many more dumbfucks. 

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Re: Self-Driving Cars
« Reply #1544 on: May 29, 2018, 11:22:52 AM »
Mark Zuckerberg is at the level of intelligence that we have to decided to trust our collective technological futures on. That's what he has to do with it. 

And he's a couple standard deviations more intelligent than the average driver we trust our safety to all the time.
Amend and resubmit.

 

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