Author Topic: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young  (Read 2643 times)

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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 10:44:50 AM »
One of Orson Scott Card's books... Alvin Maker, I think?... doesn't exactly delve into this but it does involve a universe in which the wealthier humans in the world have access to cryostasis technology that the hoi polloi do not. And, ostentatious displays of wealth being what they are, it becomes the "in" thing to go into stasis for 50 or 100 years, pop out for a month or two, and then go back into stasis and thus "live" far longer than anyone else. Soon, even the middle class is forking out loads of credits or what have you for the privilege of going into stasis for even a couple of years. It's an altogether rather dark world that I am glad is not a reality, and I think I feel the same about the idea of buying "years" from the poor. There are some things you should not be allowed to sell in a modern liberal society: your freedom for one, but I think your life is right up there as well. Whatever short-term goal early adopters might gain from it would be more than outweighed by the inevitable decrease in revenue from the act and the huge social disparities it would create.

OSC is a turd of human being but when he isn't so keenly focused on being a turd and is just writing about the inevitable consequences of some actions, he actually tells some good yarns almost in spite of himself.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 02:46:47 PM »
One of Orson Scott Card's books... Alvin Maker, I think?... doesn't exactly delve into this but it does involve a universe in which the wealthier humans in the world have access to cryostasis technology that the hoi polloi do not. And, ostentatious displays of wealth being what they are, it becomes the "in" thing to go into stasis for 50 or 100 years, pop out for a month or two, and then go back into stasis and thus "live" far longer than anyone else. Soon, even the middle class is forking out loads of credits or what have you for the privilege of going into stasis for even a couple of years. It's an altogether rather dark world that I am glad is not a reality, and I think I feel the same about the idea of buying "years" from the poor. There are some things you should not be allowed to sell in a modern liberal society: your freedom for one, but I think your life is right up there as well. Whatever short-term goal early adopters might gain from it would be more than outweighed by the inevitable decrease in revenue from the act and the huge social disparities it would create.

OSC is a turd of human being but when he isn't so keenly focused on being a turd and is just writing about the inevitable consequences of some actions, he actually tells some good yarns almost in spite of himself.

The Alvin Maker books took place in frontier USA, and were about the magical powers of the seventh son of a seventh son. OSC did write some weird shit that I didn't get into.
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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2016, 03:08:53 PM »
One of Orson Scott Card's books... Alvin Maker, I think?... doesn't exactly delve into this but it does involve a universe in which the wealthier humans in the world have access to cryostasis technology that the hoi polloi do not. And, ostentatious displays of wealth being what they are, it becomes the "in" thing to go into stasis for 50 or 100 years, pop out for a month or two, and then go back into stasis and thus "live" far longer than anyone else. Soon, even the middle class is forking out loads of credits or what have you for the privilege of going into stasis for even a couple of years. It's an altogether rather dark world that I am glad is not a reality, and I think I feel the same about the idea of buying "years" from the poor. There are some things you should not be allowed to sell in a modern liberal society: your freedom for one, but I think your life is right up there as well. Whatever short-term goal early adopters might gain from it would be more than outweighed by the inevitable decrease in revenue from the act and the huge social disparities it would create.

OSC is a turd of human being but when he isn't so keenly focused on being a turd and is just writing about the inevitable consequences of some actions, he actually tells some good yarns almost in spite of himself.

The Alvin Maker books took place in frontier USA, and were about the magical powers of the seventh son of a seventh son. OSC did write some weird shit that I didn't get into.
I had to look it up... it's the Worthing series (and specifically the book I read was The Worthing Chronicle).
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2016, 04:22:24 PM »
I wasn't thinking of one monolithic narrative, but rather a series of short stories. The Thieves World stories and Wild Cards stories are examples of shared worlds with many tales by many authors. I liked them when I read them a long time ago.

Yes, that's a much better idea.

One of Orson Scott Card's books... Alvin Maker, I think?... doesn't exactly delve into this but it does involve a universe in which the wealthier humans in the world have access to cryostasis technology that the hoi polloi do not. And, ostentatious displays of wealth being what they are, it becomes the "in" thing to go into stasis for 50 or 100 years, pop out for a month or two, and then go back into stasis and thus "live" far longer than anyone else. Soon, even the middle class is forking out loads of credits or what have you for the privilege of going into stasis for even a couple of years. It's an altogether rather dark world that I am glad is not a reality, and I think I feel the same about the idea of buying "years" from the poor. There are some things you should not be allowed to sell in a modern liberal society: your freedom for one, but I think your life is right up there as well. Whatever short-term goal early adopters might gain from it would be more than outweighed by the inevitable decrease in revenue from the act and the huge social disparities it would create.

I agree that buying years from the poor should not be allowed. That's why in my thread I didn't suggest it. I just asked if people would commit cold-blooded murder if it would give them restored youth and long life. FWIW I also don't think that paying poverty wages should be allowed. A living wage would go a long way toward reducing the number of people in poverty.
Daniel
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2016, 06:03:06 PM »
I wasn't thinking of one monolithic narrative, but rather a series of short stories. The Thieves World stories and Wild Cards stories are examples of shared worlds with many tales by many authors. I liked them when I read them a long time ago.

Unfortunately Thieves' World in particular was directionless, so it just sort of petered out after a while. The last couple of books were all by the same author.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2016, 06:30:13 PM »
I didn't know that about how Theives World ended. I don't know if they ever tried to create an overarching narrative, but I'd be comfortable with having that in mind, especially if it lets us project major plot points in the the near and far future.

The narrative constraint with historical tales is that our actual history can't be altered; it isn't an alternate history.

So, why would people care to read a tale about the Lifeaters? A few concepts come to mind:
  • Retell a historical tale, with this as an added element (Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, but without diverging from known history so much).
  • Follow the adventures of a Forrest Gump style character who bounces through history killing bad people by accident and shapin history along the way.
  • Explore the conspiracy of evil immortals who rule the world, and ultimately destroy them to free humanity from their regressive hold on our future. (Dry Water might be the best novel I've read with this theme.)
  • "Human against Nature" where the "humans" range from someone born in 20000BCE to transhuman colonists in generation ships on the way to new worlds. (Think of Pham Newen's perspective in Vinge's novels, but he's not alive because of relativity.)
  • The civil conflict that occurs when the Lifeaters are exposed, around the same time that life-extension technologies reach the functionally immortal level of effectiveness. Maybe the final piece of the puzzle to life extension is figuring out how Lifeaters work, and then doing it better? What would someone 25000 years old do when their one gift is replicated, without moral quandaries, across the population?


In a shared universe we could have several story arcs that intersect, without having to have only one grand tale.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2016, 07:21:01 PM »
The problem with creating a series of stories by different authors is that you need a bunch of authors. I was once an aspiring author, and I wrote a few short stories I was quite pleased with, and some poems, but I've come to recognize my limitations. The advantage of just writing these stories yourself is that you only need one author: yourself, assuming you have some writing ability.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2016, 07:43:58 PM »
The problem with creating a series of stories by different authors is that you need a bunch of authors. I was once an aspiring author, and I wrote a few short stories I was quite pleased with, and some poems, but I've come to recognize my limitations. The advantage of just writing these stories yourself is that you only need one author: yourself, assuming you have some writing ability.

Part of the fun of a writers' room is that you get to bounce ideas off other people. In a forum like this many great ideas could come from people who don't write anything, or who just write small snippets - scenes, not stories. It's an opportunity to be creative without the pressure of having to do all the creating yourself.

If, for example, you have an idea for a scene or a character or a conflict - well, maybe Slick wants to take it and run, chatting back and forth with you about it.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2016, 08:31:21 PM »
Okay. Whether it produces a good story or not, it sounds like fun. (Though if I was still trying to be a serious writer and get published I'd be concerned about copyright if I submitted anything I really liked. It's one reason I've never posted any of my favorite writings on a chat board. I did once have a web page with all my stuff on it, but then I changes ISPs when I moved, and never bothered to re-build the site.)

On a now-defunct chat board there was a "bad poetry contest." My submission got disqualified for being good. :)
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2016, 08:39:27 PM »
Well if we do make something popular, i suggest all proceeds to SGU, using a Creative Commons non-commercial, attribution licence.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2016, 09:00:11 AM »
Well if we do make something popular, i suggest all proceeds to SGU, using a Creative Commons non-commercial, attribution licence.

Sounds good to me. An excellent idea, actually. I think the license/copyright needs to be in place before the project starts, if it is to be valid, and since there's no way of knowing if it will be popular. Normally, nobody sees an author's work except people the author trusts, until publication, when it carries the copyright. If we do this, it will be public from the start, so should be copyrighted under that Creative Commons license from the start.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2016, 10:22:40 AM »
Guys, not to be too mean about this, but you may as well dedicate the proceeds to dancing unicorns. You don't make money writing stuff unless you are extremely lucky.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2016, 10:28:31 AM »
Guys, not to be too mean about this, but you may as well dedicate the proceeds to dancing unicorns. You don't make money writing stuff unless you are extremely lucky.

Don't fuck with our fantasy!!!  No but seriously, he's right.  "The great American novel" dream is perhaps about as much a pipe dream as becoming a movie star or getting a big record deal.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »
While I agree, it does make some sense to have decided this beforehand so no one gets their knickers in a twist later.


ETA: Any thoughts on story ideas? Overall story arc?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 10:52:16 AM by brilligtove »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Forever Young, I want to be Forever Young
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2016, 12:19:43 PM »
While I agree, it does make some sense to have decided this beforehand so no one gets their knickers in a twist later.

Yes. Also, it establishes a copyright owner in case someone else claims to be the author, with or without money being involved.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck