Author Topic: Moderation (Or The Unexpected Virtue Of Ignorance) - split fr. Self-Driving Cars  (Read 2226 times)

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Offline teethering

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Offending moral sensibilities should have a cost.  For example, if someone were to come to our forums and advocate for child rape, there would be outrage.  I don't think that's bad, I think that's how human communities must work.  If you expect not to be called on your bullshit I don't think this is the right place for you, but then again I can't imagine what would be the right place.  Ridiculous opinions ought to be ridiculed, I wouldn't want to be a part of a community that just lets bullshit slide for fear of alienating someone.

Finally on the topic of personal attacks.  They can become a nuisance if unchecked, everything devolves into bickering if there's no moderation.  But by the same token we just don't have the tools to deal with people like phooey, for example.  It's fine to implore people to walk away from threads where instead of engaging with the substance of the discussion someone is stone-walling, refusing to cite sources and playing other bullshit games aimed at frustrating the conversation rather than furthering it.  But generally that just doesn't happen because people participating in this forum are human and when they get frustrated, they express themselves accordingly.

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Offending moral sensibilities should have a cost.  For example, if someone were to come to our forums and advocate for child rape, there would be outrage.  I don't think that's bad, I think that's how human communities must work.  If you expect not to be called on your bullshit I don't think this is the right place for you, but then again I can't imagine what would be the right place.  Ridiculous opinions ought to be ridiculed, I wouldn't want to be a part of a community that just lets bullshit slide for fear of alienating someone.
Shirley, you understand the spirit intended of using the term moral sensibilities was to suggest that when the poster comes down on the other side of the opinions it is merely because the "predominant" thinking here is ungrounded in reason and proper skepticism and only plays into some form of emotional liberalism that cherishes feelings over rational thought. I notice that 99% of the time it isn't the ideas that bring ire and ridicule, it's the incessant and tired song and dance. I wish for the life of me I had taken a screenshot of the time a forum member known for this behavior claimed in print that he often took a devil's advocacy for our own good because he was the only true skeptic among this forum.
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Offline daniel1948

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Telling people that they should not offend the moral sensibilities of others is often used to get a free ride for religion. It's a pet peeve of mine. If I say there's no God, someone who believes in God will tell me I should not express my opinion because it offends their moral sensibilities. Of course they get to tell me I'm going to hell for not believing in God, but I'm offending them if I say there is no God. "Moral sensibilities" are an excuse to try to shut people up when you have no rational argument to support your unfounded beliefs.

If someone expresses racist opinions or advocates harming others, I don't tell him to be quiet because he's offending my moral sensibilities. I tell him why I think he's full of shit.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Pusher Robot

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Offending moral sensibilities should have a cost.  For example, if someone were to come to our forums and advocate for child rape, there would be outrage.  I don't think that's bad, I think that's how human communities must work.

I disagree, because I view this not so much as a human community but a forum for rationalist discussion.  "Community values" do not need to be applied - and shouldn't, in my opinion - to every aspect of human social interaction.
A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on.
Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”
Knight turned the machine off and on.
The machine worked.

Offline teethering

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Offending moral sensibilities should have a cost.  For example, if someone were to come to our forums and advocate for child rape, there would be outrage.  I don't think that's bad, I think that's how human communities must work.

I disagree, because I view this not so much as a human community but a forum for rationalist discussion.  "Community values" do not need to be applied - and shouldn't, in my opinion - to every aspect of human social interaction.

A forum is necessarily a community though.  Wherever humans gather a community necessarily forms, even more so when they're brought together by common values, in our case those values are encompassed by the term "skepticism".

But even spontaneous gatherings within minutes of forming and people interacting become communities and values emerge, even things as simple as a line in a supermarket or at a music concert.  Human interaction requires a baseline of values, things like polite conversations that you want can't happen without that, because politeness of conversations is a community value.

What you actually want is to include some values but not others, you actively reject some values that a majority of the community embraces.  That's fine, I think there's plenty of room to hash that out for most things because we value fruitful discourse more than conformity.  But there will be a line that once you cross there will be outrage and it will feel like you're being singled out.

Offline DG

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Further to the contribution by Louie, I go out of my way to try to make it clear that the modbox is not a ''warning" of any type but a gentle reminder that there there are moderators and rules and one should be mindful of those. To that end I try to make good use of the :ninja:.

We, as moderators, are well aware that the contributors here are humans1, that they get emotional (by what they perceive as personal attacks), they get frustrated (by what they see as intellectual dishonesty, evasive answers, or criticism of their pet topic/theory) and, in this context, fire off a flippant, dismissive or unhelpful post. Often this can be predicted by the tone of the thread. That's where we try to bring out the modbox. To break up that simmering angst and to remind people that there are rules and that there are mods watching. It's all too easy to be sitting in front of your computer and forget these things that when the resentful stream of consciousness spills forth - we try to prevent that if we can.


1. I have it on good authority that some of the moderators are human too.
"If you don't like the theory of evolution you should probably skip the practical".


Offline Fast Eddie B

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1. I have it on good authority that some of the moderators are human too.

Not "genetically evolved algorithm(s)"?  >:D
"And what it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet" - Alanis Morisette
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"I doubt that!" - James Randi

Offline Louie

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1. I have it on good authority that some of the moderators are human too.

Not "genetically evolved algorithm(s)"?  >:D

Crap, he's on to us. ABORT. ABORT.
"It can't end like this. Tell them I said something." - Pancho Villa's last words (1923).

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Crap, he's on to us. ABORT. ABORT.

Exactly what you'd expect a "genetically evolved algorithm" to say.

Especially if it's "irony module" was not fully fleshed out!
"And what it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet" - Alanis Morisette
• • •
"I doubt that!" - James Randi

Offline Louie

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I can assure you that our algorithm wasn't so much genetically evolved as thrown together from any old bits they had laying about near the bins 'round back.
"It can't end like this. Tell them I said something." - Pancho Villa's last words (1923).

Offline brilligtove

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Crap, he's on to us. ABORT. ABORT.

Exactly what you'd expect a "genetically evolved algorithm" to say.

Especially if it's "irony module" was not fully fleshed out!

That module is not fleshed out because they are not creatures of the flesh at all!

I can assure you that our algorithm wasn't so much genetically evolved as thrown together from any old bits they had laying about near the bins 'round back.

Because you know mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits... bits... bits... bits

Yeah, it's pretty clear, mods ain't evolved, Boo
But they can box it, box it, like they supposed to do
'Cause they al-go-rithms that all the trolls face
They’re all the right junk in all the right places

I see the sea-lion (aha)  workin' to pop your top (aha)
We know that shit ain't real, come on now, make it stop
If you got beauty, beauty, (aha)  just raise ‘em up
'Cause every argument is stronger when the evidence is top

Yeah, my modbots they told me "don't worry ‘bout IQ size"
(Shoo wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
They say, "Choice like ad hominem snooty attacks won’t fly"
(That snooty snooty, uh, that snooty snooty)
You know good S G U don’t claim true hypotheses wrong
(True wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
So if that's what you're into, then go 'head and move along

Because you know mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits… Hey!

I'm bringing tru-uth back
Go 'head and tell them shillin’ bitches that
No, I'm just playing, I know you believe that
But I'm here to tell you...
Every inch of you can learn to reason bottom to the top

Yeah, my modbots they told me "don't worry ‘bout IQ size"
(Shoo wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
They say, "Choice like ad hominem snooty attacks won’t fly"
(That snooty snooty, uh, that snooty snooty)
You know good S G U don’t claim true hypotheses wrong
(True wop wop, sha-ooh wop wop)
So if that's what you're into, then go 'head and move along

Because you know mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits...

Because you know mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits...

Because you know mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits, nix trouble
Mods all made of old bits
Of old bits...
Hey!

Yeah yeah... ohh... You know you like these bits... Hey...
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline brilligtove

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Yeah, so, having created that parody song, I now A) want to see it as part of the skeptraviganza (or whatever it is now called) and B) MY EARS ARE BLEEIDNG GTE THE SONK OUT OF MY HEAST!!!
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

 

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