Author Topic: Tesla Model 3  (Read 11551 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Tesla Model 3
« on: April 01, 2016, 10:00:07 AM »
I watched the reveal last night. There was less information than I had hoped for, but what there was, the car will be much fancier than I thought. Of course it will have 5-star crash ratings in every category. The base model will do zero to sixty mph in six seconds. Apparently there will be an option for AWD, which I presume means dual-motor. The dual-motor Model S handles better than anything I've ever encountered. (I test-drove one once.) And apparently the Model 3 will have options for more powerful motors. Rumored, but not mentioned in the reveal, is an option for less than 4 seconds 0-60. It will have options for (some?) (all of?) the assisted driving features presently available in the Model S. I don't remember the size being specified in the reveal. I'm going to phone them this morning, and if I can get through, I'm going to ask about the size, and if it's not too big I will put my name on the waiting list. It will be close to two years from now. I've said that I expect to keep my Roadster until I'm too old or arthritic to get in and out of it, but with the acceleration and the assisted driving and safety features, the Model 3 looks like the car I want, providing that it's no bigger than my Prius. Smaller would be even better. (The Zap Xebra was the perfect size for me, if it had had Tesla quality and power.)
Daniel
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 01:14:19 PM »
IMHO, there is a lot of irrational exuberance around Elon Musk and Tesla.  If he actually delivers a decent car for around 35K, I will change my mind.  He also has to at least approach keeping up with demand.  I doubt the average consumer is going to wait 2 years for a car.   I could be wrong. 

So far we really just have his word for how it will perform, I will believe it when I see it. 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 02:29:32 PM »
The Model S is the safest car the U.S. government has ever tested, and IIRC Consumer reports said it was, overall, the best car they've ever tested. NOBODY can start a new car company and compete in the economy-car market overnight. Yes, the Model S is a rich man's car, and the Roadster was even more so. The Model 3 will retail for $35,000, which is still not an economy car, but when you see what you get for that money, it's damned impressive.

No, Tesla will not be able to keep up with demand, because they are making the best and the safest cars in the world. They will sell every car they can build as fast as they can build it.

The Model X just went into production, and the Model 3 goes into production near the end of next year. And a shitload of people (including me) have already put down $1,000 to reserve one. (Fully refundable if you change your mind.) I'm not getting a Model S because it's just way too big a car for me.

There is a lot of exuberance around Musk and Tesla. But it's very rational exuberance, based on what he and they have accomplished. My exuberance is based on how much fun my Roadster is to drive, and how clean and quiet and how quickly it accelerates. (Though the dual-motor performance version of the S accelerates even faster, and it is rumored that there will be an option for the 3 that will do so also.)

The Model 3 will be not only "decent." It will be spectacular.

And it's pretty hard not to admire the head of the first private company to re-supply the ISS.

If you love the smell of gasoline, you probably won't like Tesla. If you hate the smell of gasoline, you probably love Tesla. I'm in the second category. Total Tesla fanboy and not ashamed to admit it.

Note: I own a couple hundred shares of Tesla stock, so if you buy a Tesla car I probably get about a hundredth of a penny. Or would, if they were paying dividends rather than plowing all cash back into growth.
Daniel
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 08:04:28 PM »
I'm pretty impressed if it goes down as advertised.  My biggest concern with an all electric is range.  If I were to go all electric I would need a range of at least 200 miles (which this makes).  I also am far from wealthy.  But 35k puts it a whole lot closer to my price range than something else of this caliber.


To be honest, I'm not putting down money to wait in line.  I've got mouths to feed and such.  My retirement fund is flat empty after taking almost a year off work to get poisoned daily, and I really need to have something put away before I'm too old to work.  In a couple of years...after they've actually hit the street maybe I'll look again then.


One of my other concerns is care for the vehicle. It's not like I can take it to the local service station to have it looked at.  The nearest Tesla dealer is roughly 200 miles from my house.  That's a long distance for regular servicing. Now, they are talking about opening a lot more dealerships across the country.  If one pops up in Lexington or Knoxville I'd feel much better about it.  They already have one of their charging station right up from my office in London, KY.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 08:57:53 PM »
200 miles is good for me, as long as I live in the city still. That would get me about a week on a charge, and would be enough to get me out to the WMLs outside the county for turkey and deer. I used to drive from NC to Philly or Orlando every two months, about a 660 mile drive each way, but these days it's almost cheaper once you consider the extra maintenance, fuel costs, and food to just fly instead of driving. Not quite, but close. I'll have to try a train to Chicago for a weekend sometime.

Several guys here have Tesla S models (the engineers and management, nobody at my paygrade) and some of the younger guys gave electric sportbikes. The motorcycles are pretty cool, and SO has settled me out of the desire to ride a canyon or something so I might, should I make enough money to be able to throw away on a high-risk deathtrap, hop on one and try it out. Could be fun.

I would still want a light pickup or SUV model. Hard to get a deer carcass and and weekend's worth of gear in most small cars.
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 11:44:30 PM »
Until they crack the 500 mile range or have charging stations that can charge in a few minutes they will never take off.
Not for me at least.

Have they made them loud enough. I worry about getting run over by the car I don't hear coming.
I've lived 50+ years in a country town and have got, dangerously, used to not looking as I cross a road. As 99% of the time there's nothing there and if there was I'd hear it 2 miles away.

I am glad people are thinking about the future. But I will stick with a petrol driven car, until the cost of buying and running an electric car is at least equal, and they have no inconvenience factor (Easy and quick to charge and low maintenance)

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 01:14:44 AM »
I bet you could custom program an engine noise. Maybe the classic Speed Buggy, or the sound of the Jetson's flying car!
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 07:40:12 AM »
One of my other concerns is care for the vehicle. It's not like I can take it to the local service station to have it looked at.  The nearest Tesla dealer is roughly 200 miles from my house.  That's a long distance for regular servicing.

What regular servicing?  It's not like you need oil changes or tune ups or anything.  It's once per year for an inspection, basically.  As for repair service, Tesla comes to you or brings your vehicle to them and returns it afterward.
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 08:25:27 AM »
One of my other concerns is care for the vehicle. It's not like I can take it to the local service station to have it looked at.  The nearest Tesla dealer is roughly 200 miles from my house.  That's a long distance for regular servicing.

What regular servicing?  It's not like you need oil changes or tune ups or anything.  It's once per year for an inspection, basically.  As for repair service, Tesla comes to you or brings your vehicle to them and returns it afterward.
I knew they did that "come to you" type of servicing...but on a 35k car, I have my doubts that they will apply that same policy.  I mean, with the price tag on the S or Roadster that kind of service is warranted.  On what boils down to a "cheaper than Lexus" priced car, that would be far above what you would expect.


I also know there are no oil changes, but I have no idea what kind of upkeep one of these cars would need.


My goal for an all electric car is one I could take up to Louisville for a trip without having to stop for a recharge on the way (or the way back).  Likewise trips up to Lexington.  This car seems to meet that requirement.  It's still a bit pricey for me in my current situation...but here in a couple of months I will have a car paid off (a car I don't currently own anyway) which frees up a lot of income to get back to comfortable after my year off.  By 2018, I could be in a position that 35k isn't entirely too much to think of paying for a car.




One thing I'm concerned with is normal charging.  Every thing I see about charging at home has things like "prepare your garage".  I don't have a garage.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 08:55:42 AM »
The first two years I had my Roadster, I had to pay mileage for the "Tesla Ranger" to come to Spokane from Seattle to do the annual service. Now they have a Tesla mechanic (not sure if they still call them "rangers") in Spokane. No more mileage fee for service. They are putting up more stores, and stationing mechanics in more places, so service is less of an issue than it used to be.

The weight and cost of batteries is the one real drawback for electric cars. The Roadster was a rich man's toy. The Model S was for upscale folks. The Model 3 should reach the upper middle class. Tesla's goal is to get everyone into an EV, and to that end they will continue to bring prices down. Although the very first cars were electric, the modern electric car is a very new invention, so it will take time for advancements to bring the cost down.

Too quiet? Plenty of modern gas cars produce more noise from their tires than from their engines. This is a non-issue.

I still need my stinker for my annual summer drive up to Canada on secondary roads, but Tesla is building more and more super-chargers. In a Model S (and presumably a Model 3 when it becomes available) you can drive 4 hours on the highway before you need to stop for a half-hour charge. This means one half-hour stop in the middle of an 8-hour driving day. Or two half-hour stops in a 12-hour driving day. That's acceptable to most people. The only caveat for now is you have to be on the main highways where the super-chargers are. This will improve as the industry matures.

... One thing I'm concerned with is normal charging.  Every thing I see about charging at home has things like "prepare your garage".  I don't have a garage.

This is a real issue. If you don't have a garage, charging is a problem.

Electric cars cannot replace all gas cars today. But they can replace gas cars at the rate that the industry is capable of making EVs. They're here now. They work for most real-world transportation needs. And in the first 24 hours Tesla took reservations for 180,000 Model 3 cars. That's probably the entire first year's production. That's a success in my book. If the Model 3 is no bigger than my Prius (the Prius is the biggest car I want to drive; I don't like big cars, but the exact dimensions of the 3 have not been announced) and if the fully-loaded version accelerates quicker than my Roadster (rumored, but not announced yet) than I will probably trade in the Roadster for the 3. The 3 will be safer than my Roadster and will have more cool tech.

Daniel
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Offline Calinthalus

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 09:23:55 AM »
In a Model S (and presumably a Model 3 when it becomes available) you can drive 4 hours on the highway before you need to stop for a half-hour charge. This means one half-hour stop in the middle of an 8-hour driving day. Or two half-hour stops in a 12-hour driving day. That's acceptable to most people.
I've done a large amount of road trips.  I grew up traveling with my family and used to drive 16 hours one way to visit my grandparents at least once a year.  Honestly, the complaint that it takes 30 minutes to give a decent charge in the supercharger does not impact road trips.  I don't think I've ever stopped for gas on a road trip and it take less than 30 minutes.  Everyone needs to pee and stretch their legs.


I think everyone is comparing that time to their time putting gas in their cars now.  But that's not how it's supposed to work.  Hopefully you can charge at your home overnight (when electricity prices are lower) and you only need to go to a charging station on road trips that are greater than the range of your car.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2016, 11:25:10 AM »
In a Model S (and presumably a Model 3 when it becomes available) you can drive 4 hours on the highway before you need to stop for a half-hour charge. This means one half-hour stop in the middle of an 8-hour driving day. Or two half-hour stops in a 12-hour driving day. That's acceptable to most people.
I've done a large amount of road trips.  I grew up traveling with my family and used to drive 16 hours one way to visit my grandparents at least once a year.  Honestly, the complaint that it takes 30 minutes to give a decent charge in the supercharger does not impact road trips.  I don't think I've ever stopped for gas on a road trip and it take less than 30 minutes.  Everyone needs to pee and stretch their legs.


I think everyone is comparing that time to their time putting gas in their cars now.  But that's not how it's supposed to work.  Hopefully you can charge at your home overnight (when electricity prices are lower) and you only need to go to a charging station on road trips that are greater than the range of your car.

Exactly!

On my long drive up to Canada, I usually stop once for gas and once for a sandwich. The gas stop is usually only ten or fifteen minutes, but the extra 15 or 20 would be a small price to pay for being able to drive electric. My sandwich stop is usually at a scenic spot. Sometimes the drive home starts later in the day and I stop for a nap.

If there were superchargers along the way I would ditch the Prius and go all electric. But on these routes I'd have to use an RV park, if they'd let me, and it would take 3 or 4 hours to get enough charge to finish the drive, and I'm not willing to turn a 6-hour trip into a 9- or 10-hour trip. But add an extra 20 minutes? No problem. Some day there will be superchargers on those routes, but probably not before I'm too old to drive.

With a 500-mile car I could do the drive without stopping to charge (I'd still need rest stops) and then let the car slow-charge while I'm off hiking. But batteries need to be lighter before 500 miles will fit in a car. That may come some day also, but again, probably not before I'm too old to drive.
Daniel
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Offline Hanes

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 01:23:38 PM »
Can I pay extra to get a speedometer on the dash so I don't have to turn my head to the tablet interface?

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 03:46:45 PM »
Can I pay extra to get a speedometer on the dash so I don't have to turn my head to the tablet interface?

The Model S has the speedometer on the dash, like any other car, so I presume the Model 3 will as well. In my Roadster there are two speedometers: One up on the dash in the usual place, and another within the (tiny) multi-function screen. The Model S (and X and 3) probably also have two: One where all cars have it, and another on the screen. And you don't even have to pay extra.
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 04:04:47 PM »
Our use case is probably not typical, but...

Most of our trips are to nearby towns, usually no more than about 40 miles away. But we also make regular trips to Knoxville to see family and for "big city" shopping. It's roughly 100 miles each way, and over mountains each way, so I imagine range suffers there. Plus we need to do some driving around while we're there. But...

30 minutes at the Supercharger nearby in Turkey Creek would be a trivial delay. Time to stretch, get coffee or a meal, get caught up online, walk the dog(s), that sort of thing.

So, it would just about fit 95% of the driving we do. We'd keep our Flex for towing our travel trailer and longer trips where the Supercharger grid is not handy.

That said, I resisted putting down a deposit. I don't like buying ver 1.0 of anything, and who knows what the options will be by the end of next year? I keep thinking our ideal everyday car would be a plug-in hybrid, where in a pinch a small gas engine could recharge our batteries as we drove. Such things exist, but right now the electric-only range is woefully low.

Right now the goal is to nurse our 2005 Honda Element with 180,000 miles as long as possible, which will only expand the options. Think of how the market may evolve in what might end up being 2+ years.

As cars become more like tech items, the lead time for new and improved models will necessarily shrink.

By 2018, what will the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf and other offerings from Ford, Toyota and other manufacturers look like and how might they compare to the Tesla?

Rhetorical question, of course, but as I said, for us waiting seems the most logical option.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 06:56:16 PM by Fast Eddie B »