Author Topic: Tesla Model 3  (Read 11528 times)

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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 05:38:19 PM »
By 2008 they'll be pretty impressive, I bet. ;)

I must be a jerk - I pointed out a typo!

I bet you could custom program an engine noise. Maybe the classic Speed Buggy, or the sound of the Jetson's flying car!

That's the sound I would choose. I have heard of this being done - car sounds being added - to help prevent pedestrian hits.
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 06:57:19 PM »
By 2008 they'll be pretty impressive, I bet. ;)

Fixed.

Funny how I proofread that at least a couple times and never caught that!

Online The Latinist

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 07:10:24 PM »
One concern I have with electric vehicles is how they would fare in winter in cold climates.  Not only does cold weather affect battery life, but you need to heat the vehicle, which I imagine would kill the range.  The great thing about internal combustion vehicles is that heating is free.  And there is also the matter of AC in summer; I imagine that would be a huge drain, too.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 08:16:53 PM »
... I resisted putting down a deposit. I don't like buying ver 1.0 of anything, and who knows what the options will be by the end of next year?

That's a very legitimate concern. My Roadster is v. 2.5, the last model they made of the Roadster, and IMO the best of them all. But given their experience now with the Model S, I personally am willing to take my chances with the first year of the Model 3. But then, if it does turn out to be a lemon, it's not going to affect my lifestyle. And Tesla already has reservations for what is likely to be their entire first year's production, unless you are a Tesla or Space X employee, or current Tesla car owner, since all three get priority on reservations. So it won't hurt them if you wait until year 2 or 3.

... I keep thinking our ideal everyday car would be a plug-in hybrid, where in a pinch a small gas engine could recharge our batteries as we drove. Such things exist, but right now the electric-only range is woefully low.

The Chevy Volt provides a very nice driving experience and is fairly zippy. But as you said, its range is low, and when operating on the gasoline engine it gets WORSE gas mileage than my 2004 (non-plug-in) Prius. The Volt is the worst of both worlds: as an electric car it's just okay, and as a gas car it's disappointing.

... By 2018, what will the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf and other offerings from Ford, Toyota and other manufacturers look like and how might they compare to the Tesla?

No way to know for sure, but we can make an educated guess: Compare an upscale GM car to the Tesla Model S: The Model S is the safest car the government has ever tested, and the best car Consumer Reports has ever tested. I (an admitted Tesla fanboy) am convinced that dollar for dollar, Tesla is going to be the best choice in electric cars for range, quality, and driving experience for some time to come.

One concern I have with electric vehicles is how they would fare in winter in cold climates.  Not only does cold weather affect battery life, but you need to heat the vehicle, which I imagine would kill the range.  The great thing about internal combustion vehicles is that heating is free.  And there is also the matter of AC in summer; I imagine that would be a huge drain, too.

Lithium batteries are much less susceptible to cold than are the lead-acid starter batteries in gas cars. But, yes, heating does take some energy. Not as much as you might think, but some. As for heat being "free" in a gas car: No, it's not free. It comes from your gas. That's energy you are paying for and throwing away the rest of the year. A/C is pretty efficient, so it doesn't use as much energy as you might think. Of course, in hot weather I just put on the mesh top, or leave the top off. (The Roadster is a convertible. The S and X and 3 are not, though.) To get an idea how little energy A/C uses, I've read that the energy lost to drag by merely opening the windows is more than that used by the A/C.
Daniel
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2016, 08:33:07 PM »

Lithium batteries are much less susceptible to cold than are the lead-acid starter batteries in gas cars.

Is that a given? I have lithium iron batteries in two motorcycles, and the first start when very cold is very sluggish. I was under the impression they must warm up a bit from an attempted start to then produce full cranking power.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2016, 09:36:51 PM »
I had lead-acid gel batteries in the Zap Xebra when it was new. Cold weather noticeably affected the range. Then I had the lead batteries swapped out for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, and cold weather didn't seem to affect them at all. The Tesla cars have Lithium Ion batteries.
Daniel
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2016, 07:51:05 PM »
Tesla seriously underestimated Model 3 demand
Elon Musk says orders for the EV are more than twice as large as expected.
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Offline EvilNick

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2016, 09:35:38 AM »
Until they crack the 500 mile range or have charging stations that can charge in a few minutes they will never take off.
Not for me at least.

Have they made them loud enough. I worry about getting run over by the car I don't hear coming.
I've lived 50+ years in a country town and have got, dangerously, used to not looking as I cross a road. As 99% of the time there's nothing there and if there was I'd hear it 2 miles away.

I am glad people are thinking about the future. But I will stick with a petrol driven car, until the cost of buying and running an electric car is at least equal, and they have no inconvenience factor (Easy and quick to charge and low maintenance)

Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

No offense, but this post reads a bit like an old curmudgeon shaking his fist at an ever-changing modern world.

The only thing keeping me from getting a Tesla is the cost and that I'm still paying off my Jeep.  I would really like to test drive one of these cars.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 09:38:46 AM »
Until they crack the 500 mile range or have charging stations that can charge in a few minutes they will never take off.
Not for me at least.

Have they made them loud enough. I worry about getting run over by the car I don't hear coming.
I've lived 50+ years in a country town and have got, dangerously, used to not looking as I cross a road. As 99% of the time there's nothing there and if there was I'd hear it 2 miles away.

I am glad people are thinking about the future. But I will stick with a petrol driven car, until the cost of buying and running an electric car is at least equal, and they have no inconvenience factor (Easy and quick to charge and low maintenance)

Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

No offense, but this post reads a bit like an old curmudgeon shaking his fist at an ever-changing modern world.

The only thing keeping me from getting a Tesla is the cost and that I'm still paying off my Jeep.  I would really like to test drive one of these cars.

There's quite a number of vehicles with that kind of range. The other thing is infrastructure, , because right now every corner has a gas station where I can put another three hundred miles in my tank in five minutes. Even the superchargers aren't that quick.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2016, 11:00:57 AM »
Yes. The big issue for long-distance driving is that there are gas stations every few blocks in town, and every few miles on the highways, and every 5 or 10 miles on nearly every paved road in the country. Tesla is the only company so far to be installing super-fast charging stations as I write this, and AFAIK the only EV company making cars with more than 100 miles range. A Nissan Leaf will need to stop every 50 to 75 miles for a much slower charge.

The issue with range comes down to battery cost and weight, and the issue with charging comes down to the time it takes to build nation-wide infrastructure. You can already drive a Model S across the country pretty easily if you stick to the main highways. Off the main highways, it will be a few years before there are superchargers. And the Model S is too expensive for many people. The Model 3 will bring the price closer to more people's budgets, and will be able to use the Tesla superchargers, as a standard feature. (I think it might have been an option on the first Model S's.)

But even if there are no chargers where you want to drive, or stopping for a half an hour every 4 hours of driving is too big a burden for you, most American families have two cars and really don't need both to have long-range capability. A much bigger impediment is not having a garage for charging at home.
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2016, 11:15:18 AM »
Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

I did say 500 miles or the ability to recharge in a few minutes.

If I have to recharge overnight or over a few hours then a road trip is out of the question.
I regularly do 7 hour round trips to either of the major cities in my state. I easily clock up 400+ miles in a day on one of these trips.

I don't want to have to stay overnight just because my car doesn't have the range. Now it is just a 5 minute petrol fill up before I head back.

A 200 mile range doesn't even get me to any population centre over 2,000 people and back. So they are basically useless for country people.

Offline EvilNick

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2016, 11:26:04 AM »
Until they crack the 500 mile range or have charging stations that can charge in a few minutes they will never take off.
Not for me at least.

Have they made them loud enough. I worry about getting run over by the car I don't hear coming.
I've lived 50+ years in a country town and have got, dangerously, used to not looking as I cross a road. As 99% of the time there's nothing there and if there was I'd hear it 2 miles away.

I am glad people are thinking about the future. But I will stick with a petrol driven car, until the cost of buying and running an electric car is at least equal, and they have no inconvenience factor (Easy and quick to charge and low maintenance)

Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

No offense, but this post reads a bit like an old curmudgeon shaking his fist at an ever-changing modern world.

The only thing keeping me from getting a Tesla is the cost and that I'm still paying off my Jeep.  I would really like to test drive one of these cars.

There's quite a number of vehicles with that kind of range. The other thing is infrastructure, , because right now every corner has a gas station where I can put another three hundred miles in my tank in five minutes. Even the superchargers aren't that quick.

There was a concept I'd read about a couple years ago about a quick-change system that swaps out your batteries for fully charged ones.  Granted, this would create it's own issues.  Service stations would indeed, be full service again for this, and probably a bit pricey.  Second, there would need to be electric cars with batteries that could be swapped out quickly and easily. 

As it is, electric cars is something to which I remain optimistic because this is a concept that largely needs to work.  Oil isn't going to last forever, and within the next 30-50 years, it's entirely possible that oil becomes too scarce and expensive so as to be prohibitive for regular people.  Then gas-powered cars will be the expensive commodities only available to the wealthy. 

Beyond which, oil addiction is one of the primary issues pertaining to global warming.  As much as I like that gas prices had gone down, I actually would have preferred them to stay high if for no other reason than to inspire more development of electric cars.
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Online Calinthalus

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2016, 11:30:34 AM »
Until they crack the 500 mile range or have charging stations that can charge in a few minutes they will never take off.
Not for me at least.

Have they made them loud enough. I worry about getting run over by the car I don't hear coming.
I've lived 50+ years in a country town and have got, dangerously, used to not looking as I cross a road. As 99% of the time there's nothing there and if there was I'd hear it 2 miles away.

I am glad people are thinking about the future. But I will stick with a petrol driven car, until the cost of buying and running an electric car is at least equal, and they have no inconvenience factor (Easy and quick to charge and low maintenance)

Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

No offense, but this post reads a bit like an old curmudgeon shaking his fist at an ever-changing modern world.

The only thing keeping me from getting a Tesla is the cost and that I'm still paying off my Jeep.  I would really like to test drive one of these cars.

There's quite a number of vehicles with that kind of range. The other thing is infrastructure, , because right now every corner has a gas station where I can put another three hundred miles in my tank in five minutes. Even the superchargers aren't that quick.

There was a concept I'd read about a couple years ago about a quick-change system that swaps out your batteries for fully charged ones.  Granted, this would create it's own issues.  Service stations would indeed, be full service again for this, and probably a bit pricey.  Second, there would need to be electric cars with batteries that could be swapped out quickly and easily. 

As it is, electric cars is something to which I remain optimistic because this is a concept that largely needs to work.  Oil isn't going to last forever, and within the next 30-50 years, it's entirely possible that oil becomes too scarce and expensive so as to be prohibitive for regular people.  Then gas-powered cars will be the expensive commodities only available to the wealthy. 

Beyond which, oil addiction is one of the primary issues pertaining to global warming.  As much as I like that gas prices had gone down, I actually would have preferred them to stay high if for no other reason than to inspire more development of electric cars.
Add to that the addiction to oil is propping up theocrats in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Middle East.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2016, 02:42:38 PM »
Yes, because so many gas-powered cars have a 500-mile range.

I did say 500 miles or the ability to recharge in a few minutes.

If I have to recharge overnight or over a few hours then a road trip is out of the question.
I regularly do 7 hour round trips to either of the major cities in my state. I easily clock up 400+ miles in a day on one of these trips.

I don't want to have to stay overnight just because my car doesn't have the range. Now it is just a 5 minute petrol fill up before I head back.

A 200 mile range doesn't even get me to any population centre over 2,000 people and back. So they are basically useless for country people.

Half an hour to charge for each 4 hours of driving. Your 7-hour trip would require one half-hour stop. In return for the inconvenience of that one half-hour stop, you'd be conserving petroleum and driving a car with fewer parts to go wrong: No transmission, and a very simple electric motor in place of an extremely complicated internal-combustion engine.

There was a concept I'd read about a couple years ago about a quick-change system that swaps out your batteries for fully charged ones.  Granted, this would create it's own issues.  Service stations would indeed, be full service again for this, and probably a bit pricey.  Second, there would need to be electric cars with batteries that could be swapped out quickly and easily. 

The company was called Better Place, and promoted the idea of fast battery-swapping. They had a going concern in Israel for a while, but I think they've since gone bust. I always thought the concept was untenable for several reasons, especially the question of ownership of the batteries, and the high cost of maintain an inventory of battery packs at the swap stations.

Who owns the battery packs? If the car owner owns the battery pack, then he must worry about getting swapped out with a pack in bad condition. If the swap company owns the pack then the car owner is at the mercy of the swap company: He must use their services and cannot use a competitor, which means he must pay whatever they demand; and in the case of bankruptcy, if the bank seizes the company's assets, the car owner is left with a car and no battery. In my not-humble opinion, it was a bad business model from the start. I don't know what did become of the cars and the batteries when the company went bust.

The scheme could possibly work if the company owned car and battery pack, and the driver merely leased or rented the car. But you still need to maintain an enormous inventory of battery packs in order to be able to swap them wherever drivers need them, and at present, the battery is a very significant portion of the value of the car.

Fast-charging stations just make more sense.
Daniel
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Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Tesla Model 3
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2016, 09:57:41 PM »
This week's "This Week In Tech" has as the lead topic a quite comprehensive discussion on the new Tesla.



https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech/episodes/556?autostart=false

 

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