Author Topic: Episode #575  (Read 3664 times)

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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2016, 08:33:33 PM »
Also, "PAH" as a pronunciation for the letters "PO" is a distinctly American thing. Most of the rest of us pronounce it "PO".

But it's not PO, it's ΠΟ. If it were a long O, it would be omega.

"PO" in an Australian accent is not a long O. The word "Pop", for example, in an American accent is pronounced "Pahp", whereas we pronounce it "Pop".

That's what I was referring to. I have this problem any time I see a pronunciation guide that includes an "AH" sound unless the word is actually spelled with an "AH".

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2016, 08:40:58 PM »
I now have no idea how an australian pronounces pop.  Like pope, maybe?

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2016, 09:30:40 PM »
I now have no idea how an australian pronounces pop.  Like pope, maybe?

No. The O in "pope" is pronounced like "owe". That's what the silent E at the end does - it lengthens the vowel. The American accent does not even have the short "O" sound. The American short "O" is "AH".

Open your mouth, make a circle with your lips, and puff out a very short vocalisation - do not sustain it. That sound is the short O. Add a plosive P to the beginning and the end, and you've got it.

Don't be surprised if you can't do it. Very few Americans can. That's one reason why very few American actors can do a believable Australian accent.

Offline uni

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Re: Episode #575 - Often
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2016, 10:35:19 PM »
With all this talk of pronouncing apoptosis, I feel the other pronounciation disussion needs a bit more ettention. I'm kind of OK with pronouncing the "t" in "often", though I am definitely from the silent "t" camp. However, what makes me cringe every time is the word "oftentimes". Surely this should just be "often", or "many times".

Offline lubbarin

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2016, 10:36:40 PM »
I now have no idea how an australian pronounces pop.  Like pope, maybe?

No. The O in "pope" is pronounced like "owe". That's what the silent E at the end does - it lengthens the vowel. The American accent does not even have the short "O" sound. The American short "O" is "AH".

Open your mouth, make a circle with your lips, and puff out a very short vocalisation - do not sustain it. That sound is the short O. Add a plosive P to the beginning and the end, and you've got it.

Don't be surprised if you can't do it. Very few Americans can. That's one reason why very few American actors can do a believable Australian accent.
Do Australian people dream like regular people do?
I am in favor of killing all whales on principle. Where is my avalanche of 'provocateur' money?

Offline Pusher Robot

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2016, 10:41:38 PM »
I now have no idea how an australian pronounces pop.  Like pope, maybe?

No. The O in "pope" is pronounced like "owe". That's what the silent E at the end does - it lengthens the vowel. The American accent does not even have the short "O" sound. The American short "O" is "AH".

Open your mouth, make a circle with your lips, and puff out a very short vocalisation - do not sustain it. That sound is the short O. Add a plosive P to the beginning and the end, and you've got it.

Don't be surprised if you can't do it. Very few Americans can. That's one reason why very few American actors can do a believable Australian accent.
Do Australian people dream like regular people do?
No, more like Robocop.
A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on.
Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”
Knight turned the machine off and on.
The machine worked.

Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2016, 12:01:02 AM »
I feel like there was something up with the editing this week?
 I didnt really get to learn anything about David and didnt hear him speak much? Am I supposed to know who he is? He sounds like a nice guy of course, Im just confused.
Maybe I spaced out or got distracted when that was all explained....

I was confused as well. He didn't even have any news story. All we were told is he is a Polish Australian. No background on his involvement in the Sceptic movement here or anything.

We've had "Who's that Noisy" winners with more involvement. 

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2016, 08:14:15 AM »
I now have no idea how an australian pronounces pop.  Like pope, maybe?

No. The O in "pope" is pronounced like "owe". That's what the silent E at the end does - it lengthens the vowel. The American accent does not even have the short "O" sound. The American short "O" is "AH".

Open your mouth, make a circle with your lips, and puff out a very short vocalisation - do not sustain it. That sound is the short O. Add a plosive P to the beginning and the end, and you've got it.

Don't be surprised if you can't do it. Very few Americans can. That's one reason why very few American actors can do a believable Australian accent.
Do Australian people dream like regular people do?

We dream in colour.

Offline lubbarin

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2016, 09:21:53 AM »
We dream in colour.
A letter U sneaked in to your word when you weren't paying attention. Maybe check your keyboaurd.
I am in favor of killing all whales on principle. Where is my avalanche of 'provocateur' money?

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2016, 09:39:05 AM »
As a semi-interesting aside, the town of Snowflake has around 5500 in population, and is around a mile high in elevation.  While it is dry-ish (around 12 or so inches of rain per year) it isn't your typical desert environment.  It is a largely Mormon settlement originally formed by Mormons of the Snow and Flake families.  In fact, Jeff Flake, our junior Senator, is from there.

As is the infamous Sylvia Allen, she of the Church of Latter Day Lunatics, who in 2009 stated for the record during a hearing about a uranium mine that the Earth is 6000 years old. She also floated the idea last year that attendance at Sunday church services should be compulsory for all Americans.

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2016, 09:42:39 AM »
The word "Pop", for example, in an American accent is pronounced "Pahp", whereas we pronounce it "Pop".

Ohhhh...you pronounce "pop" as "pop". Why didn't we think of that?

As for apoptosis, I propose that we pronounce it cellicide.

Offline MatterOverMind

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2016, 10:03:36 AM »
The Greek prefix ἀπο- means 'away' and definitely has a short alpha.  It is the same prefix you see in words like apocalypse, apocrypha, and apology.  I would suggest avoiding the pronouncing it with a long 'A,' as that would suggest a false etymology from the negative prefix (ᾱ-) as in asynchronous or atheist.

This is correct. It is certainly a short a, not "ay".

Also, "p" in "ptosis" is not silent. It is pronounced similarly to this:

Source: I'm Greek.






Also, in greek, the accent is in the first "o", as is "apóptosis", but I guess that is a moot point since I've never heard it pronounced as such in english (and also, the accent in the second "o" coincides with the long omega in ΑΠΟΠΤΩΣΙΣ).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 10:08:08 AM by MatterOverMind »

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2016, 11:08:35 AM »
The problem with that pronunciation is the syllabification.  It should be a·po·pto·sis, not a·pop·to·sis.  The pt consonant blend is pronounced as a single consonant (as should other consonant blends like pn). English speakers find this sound very difficult to pronounce such consonant blends, so the tradition in English has been to treat the p in words like pneumonia and ptosis as silent, which I can't really say is less correct than pronouncing the blend as two separate consonants.  Moreover, ptosis is a medical term which is generally pronounced in English TOH-sis, so it makes sense to me to pronounce apoptosis consistent with that.

Ultimately, though, none of these other issues is anywhere near as important as not pronouncing the initial vowel long, for the reasons I stated above.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline missymocha

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2016, 11:56:20 AM »
just a note to Steve, rabbits are not rodents but lagomorphs.

and most of the scientists i know pronounce it ah-pah-Toh-sis

and the PNAS joke is getting old--every one I know pronounces each of the letters

Offline MatterOverMind

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Re: Episode #575
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2016, 02:20:08 PM »
The problem with that pronunciation is the syllabification.  It should be a·po·pto·sis, not a·pop·to·sis.  The pt consonant blend is pronounced as a single consonant (as should other consonant blends like pn). English speakers find this sound very difficult to pronounce such consonant blends, so the tradition in English has been to treat the p in words like pneumonia and ptosis as silent, which I can't really say is less correct than pronouncing the blend as two separate consonants.  Moreover, ptosis is a medical term which is generally pronounced in English TOH-sis, so it makes sense to me to pronounce apoptosis consistent with that.

Ultimately, though, none of these other issues is anywhere near as important as not pronouncing the initial vowel long, for the reasons I stated above.

I'd have to disagree there.

"Apo·ptosis" and "a·pop·tosis" both sound very close to the original greek pronunciation. "A·po·tosis" sounds like a completely different word.

Just my opinion.

 

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