Author Topic: lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?  (Read 10211 times)

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Offline JurijD

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 09:39:14 PM »
Quote from: "Joe Shmoe"
Quote from: "JurijD"
Quote from: "kikyo"
I wonder if the salt water rinse is based on the same principle as the salt water gargle, which you do when you have a sore throat because it washes away the layer of mucus that contains bacteria and proteins that cause inflammation.

Perhaps it is just meant to prevent inflammation in the wound area from this type of superficial bacteria.

(PS: Source for salt water gargle info.)


yeah BUT that water gargle is not just salt gargle but WARM salt water gargle. I'd be really interested in a comparison of warm salt water gargle to just warm water gargle.

these kinds of "studies" are totally useless since they make the patient go through a procedure and then ask if they felt "relief".

wel. DUUUH. Can anyone say placebo ?


Couldn't they just take a throat culture afterwards?


they could do both. these two end-points complement each other.

Offline ~Flighty~

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 09:40:01 PM »
It all smacks of old wives' tale to me and I do find more than one reference cautioning you to not rinse with anything because you may dislodge a clot and restart the bleeding (although I can't imagine any significant bloodloss from a regular baby tooth comming out on its own).  

Thanks for the info.
Cindy~

Offline Bartmon

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Salt water rinses could work for some things, couldnt' they?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 10:10:43 PM »
Certainly I agree with the poster who said that many bacteria in the mouth can withstand a dramatic change caused by a saltwater rinse.

I would think, however, that some bacteria certainly would suffer as a result of an extremely salty rinse/swish over, say, 30 seconds to a minute. Certainly it would reduce some colony's sizes wouldn't it? (I'm genuinly asking here since I'm not an expert).

Also, it's interesting to note that a large number of oral surgeons and dentists recommend saltwater rinses after dental extractions and the like. Is it just a sacred cow?

I would tend to think it actually works to some extent.

Bart
esus Never Existed

Offline skidoo

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2007, 10:28:54 PM »
Ever had a canker sore? Saltwater definitely soothes it. And it seems to sort of shrink the sore (at least temporarily). Which I guess sort of makes sense (osmosis and all). So maybe saltwater helps shrink the inflamed tissue around the tooth "wound?"

Offline JurijD

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Re: Salt water rinses could work for some things, couldnt' t
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2007, 10:29:43 PM »
Quote from: "Bartmon"
Certainly I agree with the poster who said that many bacteria in the mouth can withstand a dramatic change caused by a saltwater rinse.

I would think, however, that some bacteria certainly would suffer as a result of an extremely salty rinse/swish over, say, 30 seconds to a minute. Certainly it would reduce some colony's sizes wouldn't it? (I'm genuinly asking here since I'm not an expert).

Also, it's interesting to note that a large number of oral surgeons and dentists recommend saltwater rinses after dental extractions and the like. Is it just a sacred cow?

I would tend to think it actually works to some extent.

Bart


Microbiology was one of my major interests in the early years of medical school and I would agree that it is plausible for an extreme salt/water rinse (especially if it's warm) to have a small to moderate effect on the bacterial fauna in the mouth.

I'm extremely skeptical however of the idea that this kind of rinse can effectively reduce clinically significant infections/adverse effects after major dental work.

For that I would need to see controlled randomised trials with a water vs. salt water comparison (preferaby with 2-3  different concentrations of salt)

I should further note that my mother is a dentist and has never heard of anyone using a salt rinse - she uses just regular tap water and so does every single dentist I've ever been to.

It might just be a practice specific to the US and propagated down the generations without it ever being questioned since everyone is doing it.

Offline stickman

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2007, 10:34:16 PM »
I did a little poking around on the net, and while i was unable to find a specific answer to the question, I note that saline solution is recommended for flushing and cleaning wounds of all kinds, not just in the mouth.
  I'd be VERY surprised if there isn't a good reason for this.
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Offline JurijD

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2007, 10:36:53 PM »
Quote from: "stickman"
I did a little poking around on the net, and while i was unable to find a specific answer to the question, I note that saline solution is recommended for flushing and cleaning wounds of all kinds, not just in the mouth.
  I'd be VERY surprised if there isn't a good reason for this.


that is just normal physiological fluid and it is recomended for washing out larger wounds where regular tap water could perhaps gather in some nooks and crannies and cause small damage to cells due to it being hypotonic.

a large gaping flesh wound does not compare to your mouth.

Offline skidoo

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2007, 10:41:35 PM »
Ummm...helllllooooo.... Osmosis...shrinking tissue....

Offline JurijD

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2007, 10:44:10 PM »
Quote from: "skidoo"
Ummm...helllllooooo.... Osmosis...shrinking tissue....


actually if anything tap water would cause tissues to swell up.

But for such a small wound in the mouth it makes no difference wether you wash it out with regular water / tap water or salt water. It's like trying to impose that everyone rub their hands 31 times and not 30 times when washing claiming it has demonstrable and significant affects on cleanliness.

Offline skidoo

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2007, 10:49:01 PM »
Quote from: "JurijD"
Quote from: "skidoo"
Ummm...helllllooooo.... Osmosis...shrinking tissue....


actually if anything tap water would cause tissues to swell up.

What? Tap water? No, **saltwater** would cause **shrinking**. That's what I'm proposing.

Quote
But for such a small wound in the mouth it makes no difference wether you wash it out with regular water / tap water or salt water. It's like trying to impose that everyone rub their hands 31 times and not 30 times when washing claiming it has demonstrable and significant affects on cleanliness.

Huh? What does the size of the wound have to do with it? Saltwater wouldn't be more likely to shrink inflamed tissue than tap water?

Offline JurijD

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2007, 10:55:43 PM »
Quote

Huh? What does the size of the wound have to do with it? Saltwater wouldn't be more likely to shrink inflamed tissue than tap water?


the size/shape of the wound has a lot to do with the justification for this.

as I explained earlier. salt water (physiological fluid) is recomended as a washing fluid for larger wounds because larger wounds can have nooks and crannies that can be filled with water that can stay in them for a while. If the water that fills them is hypotonic to the cells that can lead to SMALL very limited tissue damage.

therefore for larger wounds it's recomended to wash them out with saline solution (exactly concentrated to be isotonic to the body). But the luxory of being able to wash out such wounds with saline solution is only available in hospitals and even then there is not much of an advantage to this whole procedure.

In the mouth where fluid cannot gather in the wound and the wound is small and this wife's tale does not require you to have an exact isotonic salt solution but just "salt water" the advantages are practically non-existent.

It's not worth the effort and extra pain.

Offline skidoo

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2007, 11:06:55 PM »
Quote from: "JurijD"
Quote

Huh? What does the size of the wound have to do with it? Saltwater wouldn't be more likely to shrink inflamed tissue than tap water?


the size/shape of the wound has a lot to do with the justification for this.

as I explained earlier. salt water (physiological fluid) is recomended as a washing fluid for larger wounds because larger wounds can have nooks and crannies that can be filled with water that can stay in them for a while. If the water that fills them is hypotonic to the cells that can lead to SMALL very limited tissue damage.

therefore for larger wounds it's recomended to wash them out with saline solution (exactly concentrated to be isotonic to the body). But the luxory of being able to wash out such wounds with saline solution is only available in hospitals and even then there is not much of an advantage to this whole procedure.

In the mouth where fluid cannot gather in the wound and the wound is small and this wife's tale does not require you to have an exact isotonic salt solution but just "salt water" the advantages are practically non-existent.

It's not worth the effort and extra pain.

But wouldn't a hypERtonic solution shrink inflamed tissue? And saltwater doesn't make sores in the mouth hurt more, it soothes them.

Offline ~Flighty~

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2007, 11:20:02 AM »
forgot to mention in my last post that we went to the beach the other day and sat near a couple with small kids.  When the little guy cut his foot on a piece of driftwood the mom said "come on, we need to wash it in the ocean.  The saltwater will make it heal faster"  I almost choked.  It's funny how you notice real world references to posts after you post questions.  Either that or I'm psychic... :roll:

LOL, nothing like non sterile ocean water for irrigating a wound.  Necrotizing fasciitis for the win!
Cindy~

Offline JurijD

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2007, 11:22:15 AM »
Quote from: "~Flighty~"
forgot to mention in my last post that we went to the beach the other day and sat near a couple with small kids.  When the little guy cut his foot on a piece of driftwood the mom said "come on, we need to wash it in the ocean.  The saltwater will make it heal faster"  I almost choked.  It's funny how you notice real world references to posts after you post questions.  Either that or I'm psychic... :roll:

LOL, nothing like non sterile ocean water for irrigating a wound.  Necrotizing fasciitis for the win!


that is a common myth and we've been warned against it in med school. Salt water from the oceans is hypertonic to your cells and will actually damage them by sucking the water of out them, not to mention it hurst like hell if you expose an open wound to sea water.

Next to that the ocean water contains quite a few halofillic bacteria that can cause nasty infections in a certain small percentage of people (noone knows why ony in certain people)

Offline ~Flighty~

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lost deciduous teeth, saltwater rinse a myth?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2007, 12:27:40 PM »
I wonder why it became a myth?
Cindy~

 

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