Author Topic: Episode #588  (Read 2790 times)

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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2016, 04:00:06 AM »

You dont need vegetable oil to make chips.



Tell that to every commercial chip maker in the world.  Trucks run on that shit when it gets too rancid.

Macca's used to use dripping, but changed to "healthier" vegetable oil in 1990.  Bad move, IMHO.

McDonald's chips used to taste nice?  ???
I didn't go into a McDonalds before 1995. Everything was inedible by then.

McDonald's was crap in the 60's when I was in high school.  It's still crap, but dripping is a better food for humans than rancid soybean/corn/sunflower... oil.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2016, 05:19:20 AM »
I feel like Cara didn't get the point of the aging thing.

Steve was saying that absent any other reason for dying, the human body will give out at about age 115. But Cara kept bringing up all these reasons for dying. I felt like saying "Yes, but without those. Assume that we can cure every disease. People will reach 115 completely disease- and cancer-free, and they will still die because that's when the cells just stop working properly."

Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2016, 08:25:17 AM »
There is no way anyone will ever get me to pronounce autophagy the way Cara states is the correct way.

Do you also say as tro nom y?

Actually, I'm dutch, so we say as tro no mie. }|:op

I've been studying Dutch - I'm the only person I know of that pronounces Kuiper belt the Dutch way. 

At least I think I do, like COWper, right?  Your avatar made me think of that just now.

No, not exactly... You're probably thinking of "au"/"ou". The "ui" sound doesn't exist in English so it may be hard to describe. Here's a pronunciation video:



In old Dutch, the ui is sometimes written uy or uij.

Also, not to be confused with "eu", which also doesn't exist in English and is subtly different:



I did some work for the University of Amsterdam's department of phonetics a number of years ago where they tracked pronunciation of 2nd language learners of Dutch. They were native Spanish and Portuguese speakers. The Spanish people had an especially difficult time, as Spanish has only five distinct basic (monophthong) vowel phonemes, whereas Dutch has something like 12 (though of course there are differences per dialect for each language). I think English also has 12, though a lot of them are different from the Dutch ones.

EDIT:

And to add "ij" (sometimes written "ei", or in older dutch "y", "eij" or "ey") so that Jay can pronounce "Vijg" (Dutch for fig) }|:op:

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 09:00:52 AM by werecow »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2016, 09:53:54 AM »

You dont need vegetable oil to make chips.



Tell that to every commercial chip maker in the world.  Trucks run on that shit when it gets too rancid.

Macca's used to use dripping, but changed to "healthier" vegetable oil in 1990.  Bad move, IMHO.
Its not an inherent quality of chips though is my point. Its completely possible to have chips that arent unhealthful as part of a balnced diet.

I reckon it is an intent part of chips.  They aren't called "greasies" for nothing.  That's what people want.  Nobody sells a french fry that contributes to a healthy body. 

Boil your spuds, cut them and bake them... tell that to your local fish and chips shop.  Yeah, right.



I agree that most people want greasy French fries. But Harry is correct that you can make them without oil, or at least with so little oil that it makes no difference. And you can make them with fresh oil, though a fast-food place needs to re-use the oil for economic reasons. I think I posted my recipe above. Just enough oil to prevent sticking in a cast-iron skillet and bake the "fries." They are super-delicious.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2016, 10:18:48 AM »
Hooray, I guessed last week's noisy correctly (though not the specifics).
That is one hell of an impressive speech synthesizer btw. The HMM based ones I worked with a few years back sounded nothing like as good as that.
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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2016, 11:55:48 AM »


Actually, I'm dutch, so we say as tro no mie. }|:op

I've been studying Dutch - I'm the only person I know of that pronounces Kuiper belt the Dutch way. 

At least I think I do, like COWper, right?  Your avatar made me think of that just now.

No, not exactly... You're probably thinking of "au"/"ou". The "ui" sound doesn't exist in English so it may be hard to describe. Here's a pronunciation video:

Yeah, that's the sound I was thinking of.  The Dutch vowels are definitely a challenge.

huis means house and is pronounced pretty much like house (not the Canadian way)

and the first syllable of uitstekend  also sounds like out (not the Canadian way)...

so I figured Kuiper sounded like COWper. 


Amend and resubmit.

Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2016, 11:59:04 AM »
None of us Canadians could really manage to say mathematician Euler's name to our Dutch professor's satisfaction.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2016, 01:13:39 PM »
We are fortunate that we are not required to pronounce words incorporated from foreign languages as they are pronounced in those languages, since English has so many of them.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 02:37:04 PM »
Yeah, that's the sound I was thinking of.  The Dutch vowels are definitely a challenge.

huis means house and is pronounced pretty much like house (not the Canadian way)

and the first syllable of uitstekend  also sounds like out (not the Canadian way)...

so I figured Kuiper sounded like COWper.

I can imagine... They sound very different to me, but perhaps that's because I'm a native speaker.



Out of curiosity: What made you want to learn Dutch?

EDIT: The "au" in the German word for house, "hause" does sound like the "ow" sound, though:


« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 02:47:49 PM by werecow »
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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 02:44:43 PM »
None of us Canadians could really manage to say mathematician Euler's name to our Dutch professor's satisfaction.

Which is kind of ironic, since Euler was Swiss, and the German pronunciation of "eu" is very different from the Dutch.

Here's the German pronunciation:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/De-Leonard_Euler.ogg

Contrast the "eu" sound with the one in the video I posted earlier. To native speakers, they sound very different. Do these sound different to English speakers?
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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2016, 02:51:46 PM »
Yeah, that's the sound I was thinking of.  The Dutch vowels are definitely a challenge.

huis means house and is pronounced pretty much like house (not the Canadian way)

and the first syllable of uitstekend  also sounds like out (not the Canadian way)...

so I figured Kuiper sounded like COWper.

I can imagine... They sound very different to me, but perhaps that's because I'm a native speaker.



Out of curiosity: What made you want to learn Dutch?

You think house and huis sound very different?  I get just a smidge longer and flatter on the Dutch vowel, almost nothing... sort of Scottish sounding... and I have a pretty good ear.  And I think I can say huis in a way that you'd approve of.  Anyway, saying COWper for Kuiper comes way closer than any of the usual ways I hear it... because it's not spelled Kijper or Kuuper   >:D

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/house

I enjoy learning bits of any language, but Dutch especially because of the history and culture of cycling.  De Ronde Van Vlaanderen is my favorite race.  And when I say "study" I mean very informally... like my Dutch of the Day app.  Today's vocabulary words include vergelijken, and prijs.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:07:51 PM by Friendly Angel »
Amend and resubmit.

Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2016, 04:26:17 PM »
You think house and huis sound very different?  I get just a smidge longer and flatter on the Dutch vowel, almost nothing... sort of Scottish sounding... and I have a pretty good ear.  And I think I can say huis in a way that you'd approve of.  Anyway, saying COWper for Kuiper comes way closer than any of the usual ways I hear it... because it's not spelled Kijper or Kuuper   >:D

Yeah, they sound very different to me. It's not just the length, there is a tonal difference and a difference in the rounding of the mouth as well. But it's true that when my English speaking friends pronounce the "ui", it does sound a lot more like the "ow" sound.
Here's the two diphthongs in graphical form, where ʌu is the IPA symbol for "ou"/"au" and œy the symbol for "ui":



The vertical and horizontal axes denote the first and second formants respectively. These are the resonance frequencies of the vocal tract which make up the first two frequency components of the sound - not counting the f0, which is the pitch of the voice, or fundamental frequency. Note that by convention, higher frequencies are usually plotted towards the left/bottom of the graph and lower frequencies to the right/top, so the axes are "reversed", as it were, from what you might normally expect. The arrows indicate how the sound changes from the onset of the vowel to the end. As you can see, they're in very different parts of the vowel space.

This all reminds me of an anecdote a phonetics professor I worked with had about some Japanese people who came to visit. They asked him whether "drama" should be pronounced "durama" or "dorama". He responded that it was neither, just "drama". They then nodded their heads and were satisfied to note that it was "durama" after all. Their brains literally were not wired to be able to hear the "dr" sound the way a native speaker could. They filled in the "u" because in Japanese, it is very uncommon for there to be two consonants in a row. They literally could not perceive the difference. Supposedly you can learn to discriminate the sounds of another language to some extent, but it's quite difficult once you are no longer a kid.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 04:29:58 PM by werecow »
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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2016, 04:49:43 PM »
Yeah, they sound very different to me.

Thanks, I hadn't seen those vowel charts before - lots of interesting reading up to do.

And while I can tell the difference, it just sounds so minimal to me.  If I were speaking with my neighbor an he slipped in "huis" in a sentence instead of "house", I'm sure I would barely notice.

dankjewel buddy
Amend and resubmit.

Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2016, 05:25:27 PM »
Yeah, they sound very different to me.

Thanks, I hadn't seen those vowel charts before - lots of interesting reading up to do.

And while I can tell the difference, it just sounds so minimal to me.  If I were speaking with my neighbor an he slipped in "huis" in a sentence instead of "house", I'm sure I would barely notice.

I'd definitely notice. Funny how subjective that is. Makes me wonder what subtle differences I'm missing when I'm speaking/listening to English.

dankjewel buddy

Any time. }|:o)
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Offline DamoET

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Re: Episode #588
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2016, 07:49:27 AM »
Regarding the "science or fiction" this week, the first item that computer models are less accurate than a doctor to diagnose an issue seems to fit quite well with what I would expect.  The idea I would equate that with would be something along the lines of a mechanic v's a AI mechanic.  With all the information that a individual would give to a mechanic to diagnose a problem with a vehicle, it would be extremely easy to go off a tangent based on the car owner's perception of what is relavent to the real issue with the car, what is irrealavent and what is a completely normal operating characteristic.  Feed that into an AI mechanic, and I would expect a whole range of incorrect diagnosis as it would be difficult to grasp (or program in) what information 'you' could effectively reject on face value alone, and which issues would tie in with which symptom in question.   As a real mechanic gaining the same data, I would expect critical thinking to kick in, and systematic testing should take place to disprove hypothesis.



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