Author Topic: Episode #592  (Read 5855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6361
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2016, 12:41:03 AM »

I for one am glad the rogues didn't have too much on the election. We have heard just about everything there is to say about the subject.
Once he is President and impacting science, then it will be time for SGU to talk about it. All the rest is just speculation

Right, wait till you hit yourself with the hammer and then pull your hand away.
There's a benefit to getting out of the way early. What's the benefit to talking about theoretical woo instead of waiting until there's a clear threat?
HIISSSSSSSS

Offline lonely moa

  • A rather tough old bird.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4336
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2016, 02:51:17 AM »

I for one am glad the rogues didn't have too much on the election. We have heard just about everything there is to say about the subject.
Once he is President and impacting science, then it will be time for SGU to talk about it. All the rest is just speculation

Right, wait till you hit yourself with the hammer and then pull your hand away.
There's a benefit to getting out of the way early. What's the benefit to talking about theoretical woo instead of waiting until there's a clear threat?

You sound like you voted for the clown.
"Our minds are not quite designed to understand how the world works, but, rather, to get out of trouble rapidly an have progeny."  Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6361
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2016, 02:53:31 AM »

I for one am glad the rogues didn't have too much on the election. We have heard just about everything there is to say about the subject.
Once he is President and impacting science, then it will be time for SGU to talk about it. All the rest is just speculation

Right, wait till you hit yourself with the hammer and then pull your hand away.
There's a benefit to getting out of the way early. What's the benefit to talking about theoretical woo instead of waiting until there's a clear threat?

You sound like you voted for the clown.
That's a more telling answer than you know.
HIISSSSSSSS

Online 2397

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2016, 04:11:03 AM »
I think their take on the election was fine. I'm not convinced we know enough about the next government to usefully comment on it at this point.

Even if we do, who are we talking to? How many people are there who weren't convinced to vote differently from all the talk during the campaigns, who are liable to be swayed by more talk now, before they can see any of it actualized?

Offline Dan I

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2016, 08:50:19 AM »
One thing on their lack of election coverage. Remember, they recorded on Nov. 9, the day after the election. A lot of the "Wow I wished they'd addressed THIS..." (especially when it comes to things like who might be getting a cabinet position) came out after they would have recorded.

Offline smudge

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2016, 09:43:54 AM »
I'm along time UK listener. My first post on this forum.

I am absolutely stunned at the casual dismissal of the US election result at the top of this show. What the f*** guys?! This is surely THE biggest story in skepticism/science/critical thinking in recent years?!
OK, you don't want to be tarred as a 'political' show. I'm sure you don't want to be describes as a show about religion either. But you can't and shouldn't hide from these things (and I'm stunned, baffled, disappointed that you have on this occasion).Sometimes (often!) science/politics/religion overlap and interact (hell, you know that, right?!). To duck covering the Trump election in that manner was an appalling mistake. Jay did a great (if depressing) feature on climate change later in the show as if to underline the enormity of that blunder.

Seriously guys, I'm a fan. An admirer. I cannot fathom how you have (in my view) got this so badly wrong. I hate that my first post is a complaint. But felt I had to comment.


Offline MrsCastle

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 1
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2016, 09:47:57 AM »
It was an outstanding show.  I found the response to the election uplifting and appropriate.  When Cara said what I had been screaming at the "radio" so much more eloquently than I ever could, I knew it has been far too long that I have been listening to the podcast without making a monthly donation.  The cute little Star Trek skit cinched the deal.

I also admired Bob, so much in this episode, for his intellectual curiosity over a medical item (my field.)  It made me think I need to be more curious and listen to the stuff he says that I just don't understand at all.  Don't worry, Steve, I am still your fangirl, but Bob, Jay and Evan are hot stuff too.

Offline Dan I

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2016, 10:42:01 AM »
I'm along time UK listener. My first post on this forum.

I am absolutely stunned at the casual dismissal of the US election result at the top of this show. What the f*** guys?! This is surely THE biggest story in skepticism/science/critical thinking in recent years?!
OK, you don't want to be tarred as a 'political' show. I'm sure you don't want to be describes as a show about religion either. But you can't and shouldn't hide from these things (and I'm stunned, baffled, disappointed that you have on this occasion).Sometimes (often!) science/politics/religion overlap and interact (hell, you know that, right?!). To duck covering the Trump election in that manner was an appalling mistake. Jay did a great (if depressing) feature on climate change later in the show as if to underline the enormity of that blunder.

Seriously guys, I'm a fan. An admirer. I cannot fathom how you have (in my view) got this so badly wrong. I hate that my first post is a complaint. But felt I had to comment.

I don't think they ducked it. They were recording less than 24 hours (maybe even less than 12, I don't know time they record) after the results were known. Everyone was kind of in a state of semi-shock and the outcome at that point and A LOT of the stuff people are talking about now didn't actually come out until after the recorded.

There was a lot of "So...that happened..." on Wednesday in all corners unless you WERE a serious and dedicated political analysis medium.

Offline smudge

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2016, 11:42:30 AM »
I'm along time UK listener. My first post on this forum.

I am absolutely stunned at the casual dismissal of the US election result at the top of this show. What the f*** guys?! This is surely THE biggest story in skepticism/science/critical thinking in recent years?!
OK, you don't want to be tarred as a 'political' show. I'm sure you don't want to be describes as a show about religion either. But you can't and shouldn't hide from these things (and I'm stunned, baffled, disappointed that you have on this occasion).Sometimes (often!) science/politics/religion overlap and interact (hell, you know that, right?!). To duck covering the Trump election in that manner was an appalling mistake. Jay did a great (if depressing) feature on climate change later in the show as if to underline the enormity of that blunder.

Seriously guys, I'm a fan. An admirer. I cannot fathom how you have (in my view) got this so badly wrong. I hate that my first post is a complaint. But felt I had to comment.

I don't think they ducked it. They were recording less than 24 hours (maybe even less than 12, I don't know time they record) after the results were known. Everyone was kind of in a state of semi-shock and the outcome at that point and A LOT of the stuff people are talking about now didn't actually come out until after the recorded.

There was a lot of "So...that happened..." on Wednesday in all corners unless you WERE a serious and dedicated political analysis medium.

Hi Dan I.

Sorry, that really doesn't cover my gripe, I guess we'll have to agree to differ for now. Even if the gang were recording an hour after the result was announced one would expect Steve to acknowledge the enormity of events. The fact that the result itself IS a matter for skeptics and critical thinkers (regardless of what Trump does or does not follow through on) seems clear. Steve's intro just came over as dismissive (intentionally or not). I appreciate that Steve may not have meant it to come over that way. Maybe the guys were tired, maybe they were caught on the hop....I don't know.... Either way, the tone and content sounded way off to me.

I hope there will be some clarification and i look forward to the next show.
 

Offline AndrewzC

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • Twitter
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2016, 02:17:55 PM »

This is bull.

They said very clearly that when politics intersects with science and skepticism, they talk about it, and they said that they will talk about it when such subjects come up, because it is inevitable that they will come up.

What they're not talking about is the election itself, and in my opinion that is a Good Thing.

The episode was recorded before Trump had issued his 100 day plan. He has now and he has also announced some of his key appointments. We know that the head of his Environmental Protection Agency will be a climate change science denier. We know that he will allow the Keystone Pipeline to go ahead. We know that his senior strategy advisor coined the term "libtard" and is a regressive in every sense. Just three issues where it's clear that "politics intersects with science and skepticism.

Whatever one's political stance Trump's election has to be seen as a major defeat for the skeptical movement. To the extent, I would argue, that the movement is now in crisis. Its key messages - about the need for policy and human activity to be driven by skeptical enquiry, analysis and evidence have not got through to sufficient members of the public for them to throw out a man who disdains all three.

Karl Rove was quoted as saying "guys like me [the author of a Slate piece] were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." Trump has taken this disdain of the reality based community to a new level. I hope the SGU will tackle the current crisis by pointing out where the new White House flies in the face of reality. If skeptics won't do this, who will?

I should add that I'm in the UK where we have our own problems created by those who have no any qualms about telling blatant lies to get a grip on power. But Trump's election has global consequences and if the defeat of skepticism in the US is mirrored by similar defeats around the world we are in deep, deep trouble.

www.twitter.com/andrewzcooper


Offline FamilyFisher

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 1
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2016, 03:03:35 PM »
I am surprised Evan's prediction for the new year didn't come up in this episode or in the forum so far.  Evan should be the honorary skeptics guide psychic for the year for predicting that Trump would be president.

Offline werecow

  • Cryptobovinologist
  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3458
  • mooh
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2016, 03:09:27 PM »
I am surprised Evan's prediction for the new year didn't come up in this episode or in the forum so far.  Evan should be the honorary skeptics guide psychic for the year for predicting that Trump would be president.

Very true. He beat all the polls. Definitely psychic.
Mooohn!

Offline arthwollipot

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2016, 02:02:49 AM »
As it is, there wasn't even the explicit 3 second recognition that this is likely to be a very bad thing for science and skepticism. Instead we get "we now support president Trump, because it's an American tradition!". Oh please. Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but that actually gave me a slightly nauseated feeling.

Were we listening to the same show? I didn't get that at all.

What I heard was "We're not a show about politics, so we're not going to talk about the election itself. We do talk about the impact of politics on science and skepticism, so when that happens - which it definitely will - we will be talking about it."

I certainly didn't hear anyone on the show say that they support Trump. Maybe I missed it.

Offline smudge

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2016, 06:14:19 AM »
As it is, there wasn't even the explicit 3 second recognition that this is likely to be a very bad thing for science and skepticism. Instead we get "we now support president Trump, because it's an American tradition!". Oh please. Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but that actually gave me a slightly nauseated feeling.

Were we listening to the same show? I didn't get that at all.

What I heard was "We're not a show about politics, so we're not going to talk about the election itself. We do talk about the impact of politics on science and skepticism, so when that happens - which it definitely will - we will be talking about it."

I certainly didn't hear anyone on the show say that they support Trump. Maybe I missed it.

You are quite right arthwollipot- none of the rogues said they supported Trump, werecow is mistaken.

What werecow is referring to (and is correct about - though he mistakenly mangled what Steve said) is that Steve referred to it being "an American tradition" that they should accept the result and give the new president a chance to prove himself.
This made me spit my coffee over my laptop.
Since when do skeptics appeal to 'tradition'? Especially if that tradition suggests we should hold off commenting despite a clear threat to science, skepticism and plain good sense?

I repeat, even if Trump were to pull his head in and do none of the things he has promised to do - he was elected on an anti science platform and should be called out on it. Loudly and often. Certainly by skeptics.




Offline werecow

  • Cryptobovinologist
  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3458
  • mooh
Re: Episode #592
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2016, 09:01:21 AM »
As it is, there wasn't even the explicit 3 second recognition that this is likely to be a very bad thing for science and skepticism. Instead we get "we now support president Trump, because it's an American tradition!". Oh please. Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but that actually gave me a slightly nauseated feeling.

Were we listening to the same show? I didn't get that at all.

What I heard was "We're not a show about politics, so we're not going to talk about the election itself. We do talk about the impact of politics on science and skepticism, so when that happens - which it definitely will - we will be talking about it."

I certainly didn't hear anyone on the show say that they support Trump. Maybe I missed it.

You are quite right arthwollipot- none of the rogues said they supported Trump, werecow is mistaken.

What werecow is referring to (and is correct about - though he mistakenly mangled what Steve said) is that Steve referred to it being "an American tradition" that they should accept the result and give the new president a chance to prove himself.

Fair enough, I misquoted him. The quote is:

"But the American tradition is this: after an election everyone accepts the results, they are what they are, we come together, we're willing to give whoever won a chance to be the best president they can be, and we will judge them as they behave."

Obviously I get that someone like Steve is unlikely to be very happy about having someone like Trump as president. What I was commenting on was the wishy washy nature of the sentence.

 

personate-rain