Author Topic: The Joe Rogan Shitshow  (Read 2392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11172
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 01:39:40 AM »
Ok so-
In the clip he says he started looking into it but got creeped out so he stopped. He then lets Eddie mouth off to his hearts content and only tackles the skeptical view.
Also, Eddie talks about WAY more than pizzagate here. Joe gives him free reign.
Listen to Caras first episode of Talk Nerdy and tell me he wasnt serious in thatmoment. She keeps trying to be charitable and he keeps doubling down. Im sure he doesnt hold that opinion in day to day life but the point is he mouths off without thinking and doesnt back down.
Cryotherapy is not necessarily quackery. Promoting it before the facts are in is.
Dontcare how nice he is about Alpha Brain, he is still promoting a fucking brain supplement which he is totally unqualified to assess.
I didnt realise they had done trials though, where did they publish?

Offline richm78

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2016, 09:24:36 AM »
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 09:28:20 AM by richm78 »

Offline Memento Mori

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 9
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 12:18:23 PM »
He gives him free reign? I mean he's not the conversation police. The purpose of this show is to talk nonsense and be entertaining. All of them are inebriated so of course it's not going to be a calculated well choreographed conversation. Also this is a 22 minute clip from a 3 and a half hour podcast and so that clip is missing some I wanna say context because it doesn't show the rest of or the lead up to the conversation. I listened to the Cara podcast and I don't see the problem with him holding a different opinion than her. He wasn't being disrespectful or talking over her so i'm not seeing him "mouth off" and if you believe in your ideas of course you're not going to back down right away if the other person hasn't convinced you. I don't think he's being a quack in regards to cryotherapy as he is not profiting off of it nor is he pretending to have knowledge he doesn't have. Sure he's not scientifically rigorous but he's a comedian what do you expect? He simply trusts his own experience with it and Dr. Rhonda Patrick's opinion over Novella's.

Offline Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11172
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2016, 12:26:10 PM »
The 'he's a comedian' defense holds no water with me. If he isnt accountable for mistakes then he shouldnt be engaging on those topics. Otherwise its like a boxing match where only one person gets to punch.
He SPECIFICALLY called Steve out for his coverage of cryotherapy so he is not only pushing quackery, he is fighting skepticism.
Yes, Eddie had free reign to spout his illuminati bullshit while the skeptic was held to an unfair standard and railroaded into answering stupid questions on the possibility of government conspiracy.
His manner isnt what I objected to with Cara, its the fact that he thought that idea was worth saying aloud, let alone defending.
As I said, you like what you like and Im a fan of some of his work. But he is a shit critical thinker and he has advocated for shit like moon landing denialism (which he has quietly back tracked on I think? He certainly hasnt reached as many folls with his retraction as he did with his initial claims) , cryotherapy (refusing to discuss it with actual skeptics) and now pizzagate (as I said, the reason this came to my attention was a co-worker who was convinced by the above segment).

Offline stonesean

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7406
  • Dumb sailor on the Sea of Awesome
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 12:33:53 PM »
The 'he's a comedian' defense holds no water with me. If he isnt accountable for mistakes then he shouldnt be engaging on those topics. Otherwise its like a boxing match where only one person gets to punch.....

Amen brother.

I'm so sick of that defense.  "Hey, I'm just a comedian, but here's what I think is really going on in the world and if anyone demonstrates that I am obviously wrong,  I'm going to say 'I'm just a comedian!'"
Well.  There it is.

Offline Memento Mori

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 9
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2016, 09:13:46 PM »
You guys are misinterpreting me...
The 'he's a comedian' defense holds no water with me. If he isnt accountable for mistakes then he shouldnt be engaging on those topics. Otherwise its like a boxing match where only one person gets to punch.....

Amen brother.

I'm so sick of that defense.  "Hey, I'm just a comedian, but here's what I think is really going on in the world and if anyone demonstrates that I am obviously wrong,  I'm going to say 'I'm just a comedian!'"

I never said he wasn't accountable for his mistakes just that it is understandable that he would make said mistakes because he is a comedian and not a scientist. So because he doesn't agree about one topic with one skeptic he's bad for the skeptical "movement" as a whole? I'm not going to discuss the Eddie thing because you have clearly not watched the podcast and payed attention to the dynamic or the spirit of the fight companion. At least watch from 2:10:00 on when pizzagate almost comes up again so you can get the complete picture. He has back tracked on the moon landing conspiracy publicly ( With Neil degrasse Tyson and with Chris Hatfield if i'm remembering correctly) plus he had a show called Joe Rogan questions everything where he debunks ufo nuts, chemtrail nuts etc...



His manner isnt what I objected to with Cara, its the fact that he thought that idea was worth saying aloud, let alone defending.



That's a bit harsh...


Offline Redamare

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3796
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2016, 08:20:41 AM »
Joe Rogan is not one of us, but I think he tries, in his own way. I suspect much of this ire is coming from an uncanny valley sort of reaction.
"redamare has kicked this thread's ass" -champagnej

Certainty is the enemy of wisdom.

--RED-uh-MAR-ay--

Offline stonesean

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7406
  • Dumb sailor on the Sea of Awesome
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2016, 08:33:48 AM »
I think he's a very bright guy, but he's also a guy I'd bet has no idea how much he doesn't know or understand.

The biggest benefit I can think of regarding my own education, the personal and professional mentors I have and just plain old getting older is that I am more and more aware every single day of just how much I don't know and how little my own incredulity has to do with what's going on in the world or not. It's an important thing to learn.

Rogan is sort of a founding father in MMA circles, a sort of founding figure of reality television, a stand up comic and a podcaster.  I don't think those roles really put him in a position where he needs to listen to any sort of authority figure nor puts him in a position where someone he feels compelled to take seriously says, "Hey Joe, you're dead wrong about 'X'"......
Well.  There it is.

Online superdave

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5196
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2016, 09:01:32 AM »
Joe Rogan is not one of us, but I think he tries, in his own way. I suspect much of this ire is coming from an uncanny valley sort of reaction.

I have a friend a lot like him in some ways.  He's pretty smart (heck I think he's smarter than me) and wants to be a skeptic, he isn't into woo or anything specifically. But he is bad at reading red flags and BS detection.  He has trouble distinguishing between hype and truth, or when a website is credible.   So he doesn't believe anything particularly crazy or anything but he believes anything people in authority say.  Rachel Maddow or vox.com could probably convince him of anything.
I disavow anyone in the movement involved in any illegal,unethical, sexist, or racist behavior. However, I don't have the energy or time to investigate each person and case, and a lack of individual disavowals for each incident should not be construed as condoning such behavior.

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6275
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2016, 12:03:06 PM »
Joe Rogan is not one of us, but I think he tries, in his own way. I suspect much of this ire is coming from an uncanny valley sort of reaction.
For me, it's that he's more in line with the "skeptics" who enjoy wielding the tools of skepticism as bludgeon against their enemies, but refuse to turn those same tools on when they aren't beating up on someone else.

Also I find most of the MMA scene and Rogan himself to be a part of the larger pool if toxic masculinity.
HIISSSSSSSS

Online The Latinist

  • Cyber Greasemonkey
  • Technical Administrator
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *****
  • Posts: 5177
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2016, 09:50:35 AM »
So no response from Soldier of FORTRAN?
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6759
  • Cache rules everything around me.
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2016, 03:58:47 PM »
You want me to dig up what I saw which I'm too lazy to do


edit: I should probably point out that I think the conspiracism is making a mountain out of a molehill and said molehill is, at most, humorous gossip.  Politicians' sex lives should be non-stories unless there's actual misconduct. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:14:35 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

Offline CKava

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 499
    • God Knows What
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2016, 08:14:12 PM »
I think he's a very bright guy, but he's also a guy I'd bet has no idea how much he doesn't know or understand.

I don't get that impression. I get the impression that he is a very opinionated guy and that outside his area of expertise (fight commentary/presenting) he basically defends whatever position 'feels' right to him based on the bare minimum of 'research'. On most topic he discusses he throws out all of the usual gambits- 'I'm just asking questions.... are you saying there are no government conspiracies... corporations control everything...' and doesn't seem to update this line of thinking when it is countered. There is a reason that he is super popular with stoners and college bros; he's basically a grown man making the exact same kind of arguments you hear people spout in the wee hours after some college party.

Cryotherapy isn't necessarily quackery it's just hard to get good clinical data from a test because you can't really do a blind test plus there are some plausible physiological mechanisms.

You could pretty easily do a blind test- you could, for instance, just make the temperature low rather than extremely low. It wouldn't be hard to get good quality clinical data but there isn't much interest in doing so because cryotherapy is doing well enough regardless of the existence of compelling clinical evidence. I sincerely doubt that Rogan's interest in the therapy was based on his thorough review of the relevant research literature, it seems much more like he reads (some of) the sources that advocates provide and think that critics must be unaware/ deliberately ignoring such studies. But in reality, critics are putting such studies in context and also considering their quality.

As for Alpha Brain ( I don't use it ) they aren't doing anything malicious they truly believe in their product and they'll give you a full refund if you don't like it. Plus they've done at least 2 randomized controlled studies on it.

This is a really flimsy defence. Lots of homeopaths, faith healers and psychics believe in their product too. Does that mean they shouldn't be criticised? The full refund thing is also a complete irrelevancy. Companies that offer money back guarantees know that only a tiny proportion of customers will ever take that option and yet it gives them a marketing tool that they can use on everyone. As per the randomized controlled studies, again this is a marketing ploy that falls apart if you spend any actual time to investigate the claims.

Did you look at the 'controlled studies' they post on the website? They are terrible.

Study 1 is a 'Proof of Concept' poster presented at a conference that involves a sample of 17 people comparing 16 outcome measures (of which only 2 reach significance, incidentally the same number that are different at the start of the study!). That's a joke.
Study 2 is an actual paper with a sample size of 63 (30 per group), better but still very small and again we have an insane amount of outcome measures now increased to 26! Yet once again only 2 outcomes reach 'statistical significance' (different ones this time). So again this paper is a joke. It is not a proper study. By sheer chance running 26 comparisons at two time periods you would expect 2-3 outcomes to reach p<.05.

AlphaBrain aren't interested in the actual studies though, just in the credibility it lends them, such as you citing that they have done 'at least' 2 "randomized controlled" studies to support their claims.
If the above nonsense wasn't enough more is available here
http://godknowswhat.wordpress.com/

Offline Johnny Slick

  • "Goddammit, Slick."
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11990
  • Fake Ass Skeptic
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 08:37:43 PM »
Quote from: ckava
I don't get that impression. I get the impression that he is a very opinionated guy and that outside his area of expertise (fight commentary/presenting) he basically defends whatever position 'feels' right to him based on the bare minimum of 'research'. On most topic he discusses he throws out all of the usual gambits- 'I'm just asking questions.... are you saying there are no government conspiracies... corporations control everything...' and doesn't seem to update this line of thinking when it is countered.
These things aren't mutually exclusive. Some of the dumbest things I've ever heard came out of the mouths of legitimately very smart people. I think there's an arrogance in one's beliefs that grows when you really are soooo much smarter than everyone else around you regarding what you do. There's no "oh, this guy is an expert in his field just like I am in mine" in many cases because they're so used to being righter than all of the other experts in their own field that they just feel it's the same thing. And as for research... I'm sure Joe Rogan has forgotten all of the hard work he did on MMA to get knowledgeable in it. It just feels natural to him... and so does "just asking questions" about Trutherism.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6275
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: The Joe Rogan Shitshow
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2016, 10:01:15 PM »
Quote from: ckava
I don't get that impression. I get the impression that he is a very opinionated guy and that outside his area of expertise (fight commentary/presenting) he basically defends whatever position 'feels' right to him based on the bare minimum of 'research'. On most topic he discusses he throws out all of the usual gambits- 'I'm just asking questions.... are you saying there are no government conspiracies... corporations control everything...' and doesn't seem to update this line of thinking when it is countered.
These things aren't mutually exclusive. Some of the dumbest things I've ever heard came out of the mouths of legitimately very smart people. I think there's an arrogance in one's beliefs that grows when you really are soooo much smarter than everyone else around you regarding what you do. There's no "oh, this guy is an expert in his field just like I am in mine" in many cases because they're so used to being righter than all of the other experts in their own field that they just feel it's the same thing. And as for research... I'm sure Joe Rogan has forgotten all of the hard work he did on MMA to get knowledgeable in it. It just feels natural to him... and so does "just asking questions" about Trutherism.
"I'm smart, therefore I'm right" and it's best friend "I'm too smart/skeptical to have been bamboozled/fall prey to a simple fallacy" are common, even on this very board. I'm not qualified to comment on Rogan's intelligence, so instead I'll comment on his behavior and his tendency to put his full weight behind something that sounds mind-blowing, disruptive, or "dark triad." There's a reason his podcast has a lot of crossover with the alt-right.
HIISSSSSSSS

 

personate-rain