Author Topic: Episode #599  (Read 2347 times)

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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2017, 11:50:40 PM »
[
Anything they could say almost 5 weeks out from him being President would only be speculation. Why waste time on stuff that may not happen. Address it as it happens.



The US abstained the Security council vote regarding Israeli settlements.  That's something that has already happened.  Canada has closed the border for immigration from the US, That's happened.  If one listens to well informed conventional long format news discussions, plenty has happened. 
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2017, 11:57:48 PM »
I am watching the Facebook stream right now and absolutely loving it.  I'd love to see them do at least a couple of those a year; it's really great to see how they interact and and also get some insight into what kinds of things don't make the final cut.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2017, 12:04:07 AM »
[
Anything they could say almost 5 weeks out from him being President would only be speculation. Why waste time on stuff that may not happen. Address it as it happens.



The US abstained the Security council vote regarding Israeli settlements.  That's something that has already happened.  Canada has closed the border for immigration from the US, That's happened.  If one listens to well informed conventional long format news discussions, plenty has happened. 

1) The abstention was Obama's decision. Trump is not President yet.
2) I can find no evidence that Canada has, in fact, closed it's borders to immigration from the US.  And even if it had, it would not be a story relevant to science or skepticism.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2017, 12:12:30 AM »
[
Anything they could say almost 5 weeks out from him being President would only be speculation. Why waste time on stuff that may not happen. Address it as it happens.



The US abstained the Security council vote regarding Israeli settlements.  That's something that has already happened.  Canada has closed the border for immigration from the US, That's happened.  If one listens to well informed conventional long format news discussions, plenty has happened. 

1) The abstention was Obama's decision. Trump is not President yet.
2) I can find no evidence that Canada has, in fact, closed it's borders to immigration from the US.  And even if it had, it would not be a story relevant to science or skepticism.

Those would have been my replies. Until we can directly blame him for something, we are just speculating about what he can do.
What a politician says they are going to do, means nothing until it happens.

They usually either over promise or under deliver. Which would be a good thing in Trump's case.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2017, 12:50:21 AM »
The US abstention was directly set against Trump (non) policy, backing  everything Israel. 

The move was actually put forward by NZ after our PM resigned (cut and ran... as some might say).

I would think that a lot is afoot looking forward to Trump actually taking office.  Of course, he will have to explain a few things like the Trump Charity and why he has yet to reveal his tax returns, his relationship with Putin, and a few conflicts of interest.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2017, 01:21:56 AM »
I'm unlikely to watch a facebook stream, or a youtube video. I consume podcasts while I'm driving - my sitting in front of the TV time is spent actually watching TV shows that I want to watch.

And yeah, I hope those people who were excoriating the SGU for not talking about Trump are satisfied now.


On the scale of 1-10, I'd give it a 1.5, and quite tardy, at that.


Offline JuniorSpaceman

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2017, 02:04:06 AM »
Anything they could say almost 5 weeks out from him being President would only be speculation. Why waste time on stuff that may not happen. Address it as it happens.

Jackass of the Year and commentary on his appointments is about as much as you can really comment on until he does something stupid, as President.
Which could be during his inauguration given his previous form  ;)
I agree, and I'd give Steve's commentary closer to an 8 or 9 out of 10 (remembering that this is a skepticism podcast, and not a political one). He hit almost all of the points that I was hoping he would, and he also made it clear that the SGU would be taking him to task any time it's required, not because of political alignment, but because of Trump's anti-Science and anti-facts approach.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2017, 09:56:30 AM »
While the baboon is not yet President, his announced choices for cabinet posts are specific decisions that can legitimately be criticized. Whether or not those choices are confirmed by the Senate, they show the baboon's intentions to reject science in decision-making. If the baboon gets his way (and with a Republican majority in the Senate, and the Democrats' history of never taking a stand, it's likely he will) his cabinet will be filled with open racists and science-deniers.
Daniel
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2017, 01:07:13 PM »
While the baboon is not yet President, his announced choices for cabinet posts are specific decisions that can legitimately be criticized.

And they have criticized them, and I expect that they will continue to do so as they come up for confirmation and there is opportunity for action. But seems that some won't be satisfied until the SGU starts devoting their entire show to obscenity-filled rants against Donald Trump.  But that's not the kind of show this is, nor should it be.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2017, 01:55:43 PM »
While the baboon is not yet President, his announced choices for cabinet posts are specific decisions that can legitimately be criticized.

And they have criticized them, and I expect that they will continue to do so as they come up for confirmation and there is opportunity for action. But seems that some won't be satisfied until the SGU starts devoting their entire show to obscenity-filled rants against Donald Trump.  But that's not the kind of show this is, nor should it be.

Agreed.
Daniel
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Offline fuzzyMarmot

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2017, 07:40:52 PM »
And they have criticized them, and I expect that they will continue to do so as they come up for confirmation and there is opportunity for action. But seems that some won't be satisfied until the SGU starts devoting their entire show to obscenity-filled rants against Donald Trump.  But that's not the kind of show this is, nor should it be.

I don't think anyone was advocating for such rants. I would have liked the SGU to comment on political developments relevant to science policy. Four cabinet selections come to mind: Betsy DeVos for Secretary of Education, Rick Perry for Secretary of Energy, Tom Price for Secretary of HHS, and Scott Pruitt for Administrator of the EPA. After each of these events, it would have been nice for the SGU to do a 2 minute news story: this is who was selected, this is what the job entails, this is why it would negatively impact scientific skepticism, U.S. listeners please contact your senators to voice your opinion.

No need for long political discussions, or to stray outside the realm of science policy. But being proactive means informing people about issues before irreversible steps are taken.

Again, I'm grateful that the SGU finally mentioned the problems presented by the President-elect.

Steve's run-up to jack-ass of the year had me thinking he might surprise us and pick Jill Stein. Any other year she would have been a front runner. This year she only gets a dishonorable mention.

Offline murraybiscuit

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2017, 12:21:14 AM »
On an unrelated note, I noticed Henry Heimlich's name in the obit list. Not sure how familiar everyone else is here with Heimlich's story, but it really is one where truth is stranger than fiction.

Radiolab did an interesting overview on the man's life and achievements. I'd say from a skeptic point of view, it may have some merit to cover on the show at some stage. The man was undoubtedly bright, first garnering fame for a device that has since saved countless lives in combat. The abdominal thrust he's so famous for was revolutionary at the time, but seems to have come under increasing scrutiny by the Red Cross in recent times. They claim that it's less effective than back-slapping as an anti-choking technique.

Then there's the issue of Heimlich himself stepping outside of his area of expertise and advocating abdominal thrusts for all kinds of risky interventions (asthma and drowning). In his latter days, in a Pauling-esque move, he dredged up long-abandoned malaria therapy as a curative treatment for cancer, AIDS and Lyme disease. He conducted some rather shady clinical trials in Mexico to this end. And then there's the family feud side-plot.

The story brings up some interesting skeptical themes: anecdote and hunches vs evidence; arguments from authority / popularity; as well as some more sobering points around medical ethics.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 01:21:57 AM by murraybiscuit »

Offline smudge

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2017, 02:52:34 AM »
Oh sh*t! Someone said the 'T' word!
 ;D
Steve's take down of Trump was great to hear (if rather late for my liking). Bravo. Spot on. Well said.

Congratulations to all the SGU crew on another year of skeptical goodness!
I'm sure that the amount of time and effort put into the show behind the scenes would seem unfeasible if written into a job description! Thank you all.









Online werecow

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2017, 08:43:14 AM »
I'm sad that I missed this... But then, I'm not really on facebook very much.
Will the whole video be uploaded to youtube? Facebook video is unbelievably stuttery for me.

A few remarks about the mp3 version:

Conspiracy viability discussion: I actually remember this one as kind of a failure; even though the conclusions may be correct, the study was highly flawed in various ways, and the relatively uncritical discussion kind of felt like skeptics giving in to their confirmation bias.

Trump: Thank you for finally addressing this in detail! Regarding what has changed, I think it's not so much that things have actually changed, but that this year showed us the sheer extent of the gaping chasm that separates the general public from skeptics in terms of how we look at the world. It's like Steve and Cara said; this was the year that people gave up trying to even appear to speak any kind of truth. I can get into the mindset of someone who is mislead by cherry picked graphs showing that temperatures haven't changed in the last 15 years because they appeal to his confirmation bias, but this was the year when people cheered on a guy who just stated outright that the whole thing was invented by the Chinese. I never expected to see so much support for such an obvious, blatant liar and phony. For the first time, I really don't see there being any limit anymore to what untruths someone can get away with, and still become the most powerful person in the world because the people picked him.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #599
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2017, 09:56:08 AM »
I'm sad that I missed this... But then, I'm not really on facebook very much.
Will the whole video be uploaded to youtube? Facebook video is unbelievably stuttery for me.

A few remarks about the mp3 version:

Conspiracy viability discussion: I actually remember this one as kind of a failure; even though the conclusions may be correct, the study was highly flawed in various ways, and the relatively uncritical discussion kind of felt like skeptics giving in to their confirmation bias.

Trump: Thank you for finally addressing this in detail! Regarding what has changed, I think it's not so much that things have actually changed, but that this year showed us the sheer extent of the gaping chasm that separates the general public from skeptics in terms of how we look at the world. It's like Steve and Cara said; this was the year that people gave up trying to even appear to speak any kind of truth. I can get into the mindset of someone who is mislead by cherry picked graphs showing that temperatures haven't changed in the last 15 years because they appeal to his confirmation bias, but this was the year when people cheered on a guy who just stated outright that the whole thing was invented by the Chinese. I never expected to see so much support for such an obvious, blatant liar and phony. For the first time, I really don't see there being any limit anymore to what untruths someone can get away with, and still become the most powerful person in the world because the people picked him.

The American people did NOT pick him. He won the office due to a quirk in the American electoral system wherein the less-populated states get a few more electors relative to their population, and with only a couple of exceptions, all the electors from any state ALL go to the candidate who gained a plurality of the votes in that state. This has resulted in this kind of outcome (but never a President so completely brutish) several times in the past, but persists because of a lingering view that states have more rights than people, and that giving power to states is more important than the democratic ideal of one-person-one-vote.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

 

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