Author Topic: Climate Change Catchment Thread  (Read 26730 times)

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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #330 on: January 10, 2019, 10:31:16 PM »
Yeah, I suppose the coastal areas will remain inhabitable for humans. But even there it's still pretty warm even today.

The south east is fairly mild. You do get hot days, but not as bad as the rest of the country.

Even in summer, it rains where I am 3 to 4 days a week and rarely gets above 30 (86F). 3 times so far this summer and I'd expect probably another 5 days for the rest of summer.

Above 100F (38C) is even rarer. My area has only experienced that once ever (39C in 2013)

This doesn't sound very different from Sweden, even though your summer season is probably longer than ours. I expected Australia to be significantly warmer compared to around here.

Remember that Dave is talking about a small area of the coast. Inland it gets MUCH warmer.

And it also gets much colder inland too.  Oceans do moderate climate.  In the inland deserts, it can be very cold at night.

With global warming, I expect the maxima will increase.   As will the minima.  Back in the ‘80s, I remember that in winter in Perth it would sometimes be minus 3 degrees Celsius in the predawn morning.  But that never happens nowadays.  It’s very rare to get even close to 0 degrees.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #332 on: January 11, 2019, 12:58:53 AM »
Remember that Dave is talking about a small area of the coast. Inland it gets MUCH warmer.

That is why we only have 25 million people in the same area as the contiguous USA (the bit between Canada and Mexico) which has 325 million.

The vast majority of our country is uninhabitable and much of the rest is uncomfortable. Only Antarctica is a more extreme continent.

85% of us live within 50 kilometres of the coast.. We have "islands" of habitable zones. Those areas will get smaller and more densely populated as the country gets warmer.


Offline DamoET

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #333 on: January 11, 2019, 01:42:10 AM »
I have a geologist friend that presented me with the argument that the problem with the man causes climate change hypothesis is that it only looks at a small period , and that most of the change today can be explained by something called milankovitch cycles and presented me this article http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=62

Is there any response to this sort of argument  ??  If so where can  I find articles that talk about this matter ?  Most of the people against the idea of global warming have been cranks, but this friend is a serious geologist  not just random guy on the internet. Thanks in advance =)

I would remind him that he is NOT a climatologist.

Then talk about the science of global warming itself. Because of he can't created tests that refute the basic science, then he has to accept climate change if he actually think scientifically.
Please feel free to run this by an actual practicing climatologist.
Something like:

anthropomorphic global warming (AGW) is a fact.

1) Visible light strikes the earth Testable? Yes. Tested? Yes. Could anyone devise a test? Yes

2) Visible light has nothing for CO2 to absorb, so it pass right on through. Testable? Yes. Tested? Yes. Could anyone devise a test? Yes

3) When visible light strike an object, IR is generated. Testable? Yes. Tested? Yes. Could anyone devise a test? Yes

4) Green house gasses, such as CO2, absorb energy(heat) from IR. Testable? Yes. Tested? Yes. Could anyone devise a test? Yes

5) Humans produce more CO2(and other green house gasses) then can be absorbed through the cycle. Testable? Yes. Tested? Yes. Could anyone devise a test? Yes


Each one of those has been tested, a lot. You notice deniers don't actual address the facts of AGW? Don't have a test that shows those facts to be false?
So now you have to answer:
Why do you think trapping more energy(heat) in the lower atmosphere does not impact the climate?

  Correct #4, CO2 and other green house gases are opaque to infra red (like glass is) and act as "Green house", the higher the CO2 content of the atmosphere, the less IR can escape the planet's surface.


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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #334 on: January 12, 2019, 12:55:50 PM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #336 on: January 14, 2019, 12:20:29 PM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #337 on: January 15, 2019, 08:38:18 AM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.
Mooohn!

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #338 on: January 17, 2019, 01:22:48 PM »
Article: The three-degree world: the cities that will be drowned by global warming
From: The Guardian
Date: 2017 NOV 3

Quote
Scientists at the non-profit organisation Climate Central estimate that 275 million people worldwide live in areas that will eventually be flooded at 3C of global warming.

Lot of great infographics in this one.


Article: Insect collapse: ‘We are destroying our life support systems’
From: The Guardian
Date: 2019 Jan 15

Quote
...

His return to the Luquillo rainforest in Puerto Rico after 35 years was to reveal an appalling discovery. The insect population that once provided plentiful food for birds throughout the mountainous national park had collapsed. On the ground, 98% had gone. Up in the leafy canopy, 80% had vanished. The most likely culprit by far is global warming.

...

The Puerto Rico work is one of just a handful of studies assessing this vital issue, but those that do exist are deeply worrying. Flying insect numbers in Germany’s natural reserves have plunged 75% in just 25 years. The virtual disappearance of birds in an Australian eucalyptus forest was blamed on a lack of insects caused by drought and heat. Lister and his colleague Andrés García also found that insect numbers in a dry forest in Mexico had fallen 80% since the 1980s.

“We are essentially destroying the very life support systems that allow us to sustain our existence on the planet, along with all the other life on the planet,” Lister said. “It is just horrifying to watch us decimate the natural world like this.”

...
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #339 on: January 17, 2019, 01:37:27 PM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.

I think you have a point. That map of estimates is probably not flawless. Personally I think the prospect of being dependent on walls against the sea is not very comforting.

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #340 on: January 19, 2019, 10:28:55 AM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.

I think you have a point. That map of estimates is probably not flawless. Personally I think the prospect of being dependent on walls against the sea is not very comforting.
Well, in fairness, we've been doing that for quite a while and it has mostly worked out for us so far. I just wonder how far we can push that. Can we raise dikes 2m? 5? 10? What's the limit, if any?
Mooohn!

Online werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #341 on: January 19, 2019, 10:50:02 AM »
Article: The three-degree world: the cities that will be drowned by global warming
From: The Guardian
Date: 2017 NOV 3

Quote
Scientists at the non-profit organisation Climate Central estimate that 275 million people worldwide live in areas that will eventually be flooded at 3C of global warming.

Lot of great infographics in this one.

There's one that says "The Hague 2.5 million". I assume that that includes neighboring cities like Leiden (where I live) or maybe the Rotterdam-The Hague metropolitan area (2.7 million), because The Hague itself has only about half a million inhabitants.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #342 on: January 20, 2019, 01:25:05 PM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.

I think you have a point. That map of estimates is probably not flawless. Personally I think the prospect of being dependent on walls against the sea is not very comforting.
Well, in fairness, we've been doing that for quite a while and it has mostly worked out for us so far. I just wonder how far we can push that. Can we raise dikes 2m? 5? 10? What's the limit, if any?

Sure, but what if there is a failure somewhere? Just my bias, and I understand that the Dutch have little choice in the matter. I'd just not like the idea of depending on fending off a huge natural force like that. But globally, this is probably going to happen more often, especially around large cities that are commercially important, or parts of the cities at least. Manhattan is going to be protected at all costs, and I doubt that the Japanese will simply allow Osaka to be swallowed by the sea.

Online werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #343 on: January 20, 2019, 01:56:12 PM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.

I think you have a point. That map of estimates is probably not flawless. Personally I think the prospect of being dependent on walls against the sea is not very comforting.
Well, in fairness, we've been doing that for quite a while and it has mostly worked out for us so far. I just wonder how far we can push that. Can we raise dikes 2m? 5? 10? What's the limit, if any?

Sure, but what if there is a failure somewhere? Just my bias, and I understand that the Dutch have little choice in the matter. I'd just not like the idea of depending on fending off a huge natural force like that. But globally, this is probably going to happen more often, especially around large cities that are commercially important, or parts of the cities at least. Manhattan is going to be protected at all costs, and I doubt that the Japanese will simply allow Osaka to be swallowed by the sea.

Well some people live on an active volcano. Some live on a major faultline. Some live in extremely hostile climates. And we live underwater. What can I say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #344 on: January 21, 2019, 06:35:17 AM »
In case you are wondering where you should be in terms of climate change, here is a map:



I'm surprised at the good scores of Australia, Spain, and Portugal. Sure they are politically stable developed first-world countries, but they are already very warm countries.

I wonder what their criteria were. I realize that my country (The Netherlands) is well off economically and we're unlikely to experience the most deadly weather extremes that some other countries will, but the fact that sea level rise is a big issue for us had me thinking we would be at least in the yellow.

I don't know. But I could speculate. Maybe that the Netherlands is already dealing with pushing back the sea as it is, it is a wealthy country and a politically stable democracy help a lot?
True. Still, there is probably a limit to how high we can raise our dikes and dunes. And leaving aside the increased danger of floods, we are one of the biggest exporters of agricultural products in the world, and saltwater intrusion is going to be a big issue for us. They're already talking about genetic engineering to make plants more salt tolerant.

I think you have a point. That map of estimates is probably not flawless. Personally I think the prospect of being dependent on walls against the sea is not very comforting.
Well, in fairness, we've been doing that for quite a while and it has mostly worked out for us so far. I just wonder how far we can push that. Can we raise dikes 2m? 5? 10? What's the limit, if any?

Sure, but what if there is a failure somewhere? Just my bias, and I understand that the Dutch have little choice in the matter. I'd just not like the idea of depending on fending off a huge natural force like that. But globally, this is probably going to happen more often, especially around large cities that are commercially important, or parts of the cities at least. Manhattan is going to be protected at all costs, and I doubt that the Japanese will simply allow Osaka to be swallowed by the sea.

Well some people live on an active volcano. Some live on a major faultline. Some live in extremely hostile climates. And we live underwater. What can I say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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