Author Topic: Climate Change Catchment Thread  (Read 4466 times)

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Online werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2017, 07:20:45 AM »
I love the x-axis. 



Who in the world would think to make a graph that way?
I like the info it gives... that emissions have stabilized and we aren't seeing a continued exponential growth trend. It just needs a better indicator of the change in scale (and 2010).

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I think it's at least potentially highly misleading. This flattening would show up as just another anomalous blip in any of the preceding two-decade intervals in that graph. In fact, you can see several such slowdowns and even reductions during the 80s and 90s. The suggestion is that emissions have been stable for a long time and that this is likely to remain so, but that is not actually clear at all if you pay attention to the scale change. Especially given that large parts of the world are still experiencing some degree of economic malaise. Even from this graph, it's climbing right up until 2014. 2016 was only the third year in which emissions have been stable. I doubt that's enough to establish a meaningful long term trend. And that's just emissions, not actual CO2 concentration, which is still going up.
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Offline 2397

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2017, 07:39:15 AM »
I guess the point of the graph is to show emissions flattening, and that there's hope for them to finally go down. But would most readers think that flattening's enough? Crisis averted?

To me it means that we've maybe stopped making things worse at a greater rate. Leaving us to continue to make things worse at the highest ever rate, and we have as much reason as we ever did to reduce emissions.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2017, 10:28:53 AM »
As is, it's ridiculous to read. 

I measured 65 pixels distance between 1970's 7 and 0 and 1990's 9 and 0.  So, a 20 year increment is 65 pixels, or, 3.25 pixels per year. 

If I amend 2011 to 2010 and continue that scale from 2010 to 2015, we end up with something that looks like this:

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Online gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2017, 10:53:14 AM »
I love the x-axis. 



Who in the world would think to make a graph that way?
I like the info it gives... that emissions have stabilized and we aren't seeing a continued exponential growth trend. It just needs a better indicator of the change in scale (and 2010).

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That isn't the info it gives, that's the info it very misleadingly suggests.
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Offline HanEyeAm

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2017, 01:23:15 PM »
I love the x-axis. 



Who in the world would think to make a graph that way?
I like the info it gives... that emissions have stabilized and we aren't seeing a continued exponential growth trend. It just needs a better indicator of the change in scale (and 2010).

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
That isn't the info it gives, that's the info it very misleadingly suggests.
Well, here's a handful of us who were not misled.

But the points of werecow and others are well taken: at a cursory glance it looks like the trend has mostly flattened, so that may overemphasize the state of things when considering other periods of short-term declines/non-growth have occurred in the past.

Aside...I assume these data points are all estimated by some formula estimating historical world population, type of fuel used, amount of fuels used, etc. Complex stuff!

Online gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2017, 01:34:42 PM »
Well, here's a handful of us who were not misled.
Except, you apparently were misled, because you thought it showed that emissions have stabilized, which it doesn't actually demonstrate.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline albator

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2017, 02:56:09 PM »
Well, here's a handful of us who were not misled.

But the points of werecow and others are well taken: at a cursory glance it looks like the trend has mostly flattened, so that may overemphasize the state of things when considering other periods of short-term declines/non-growth have occurred in the past.

Aside...I assume these data points are all estimated by some formula estimating historical world population, type of fuel used, amount of fuels used, etc. Complex stuff!
On current world emissions, they say there is a max relative error of 10% ( in the IEA report).
Here's what a normal chart looklike.  :)


Strangly, these numbers differ by something like a 3 gigatons co2 with the dubious chart, maybe they come from a previous report or include other source of emissions.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 03:41:18 PM by albator »

Online gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2017, 05:31:57 PM »
The graph seems to correspond to the numbers from the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center.

Here's their data from 1870 to 2014 without the bizarre rescaling on the x-axis:


(Cement production and gas flaring are included in the CDIAC data, which probably accounts for the difference from the IEA numbers. Weird that the dubious graph would cite the IEA in that case, though.)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 05:34:23 PM by gmalivuk »
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline HanEyeAm

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2017, 06:15:14 PM »


Well, here's a handful of us who were not misled.
Except, you apparently were misled, because you thought it showed that emissions have stabilized, which it doesn't actually demonstrate.

No, I was not misled. Poor choice of words on my part, though (stabilized).


Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2017, 02:31:03 PM »
Trump intends to withdraw from Paris Accords.  Rest of the world, not so much.

Article: EU official: EU, China to reaffirm support for climate pact
From: AP News
Date: May 31, 2017

Quote
BRUSSELS (AP) — The European Union and China will reaffirm their commitment to the Paris climate change accord this week regardless of whether the U.S. pulls out of the pact, a senior EU official said Wednesday.

...

President Donald Trump is expected to pull the U.S. from the pact, a White House official said Wednesday, though there could be “caveats in the language” announcing a withdrawal, leaving open the possibility that his decision isn’t final.

...

In a joint statement issued following talks in the Spanish capital between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Spanish counterpart Mariano Rajoy, the two countries said taking action on climatic change was a priority for both nations.

...
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2017, 02:51:28 PM »
Oh, baby!

Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

Online werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2017, 03:07:18 PM »
Oh, baby!



Oh come on. Nothing to see there! Have you ever tried eating 13kms of ice cream? That's a lot of ice ice baby.
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Online Andrew Clunn

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2017, 03:10:36 PM »
The Feb 12th May 1st lines seem to point to the same place.  I'm a bit confused there.
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Online werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2017, 03:13:37 PM »
The Feb 12th May 1st lines seem to point to the same place.  I'm a bit confused there.

If you look at the zoomed inset, there's two cracks going in parallel there.
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2017, 08:59:36 PM »
Eight more miles!

Here's a map with better labeling:

Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

 

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